Transcript: Prism Protocol AMA


Finn 0:42
Hello and welcome to The Ether. Today is Monday, February 14th 2022. This episode of The Ether is brought to you by WeFund. WeFund is a community crowdfunding cross-chain incubator on Terra and it’s the first launchpad that implements a milestone funding release system to protect investors. All money raised for projects is deposited in Anchor Protocol and it’s refundable, and all decisions are based on community voting power. WeFund is community focused and designed to be a user friendly experience for both project creators and investors. Be sure to follow them on Twitter and join the Telegram for more information. Links are in the show notes and check them out online at This episode of The Ether is also brought to you by Orbital Command, a community validator on Terra dedicated to educating, expanding, and promoting the LUNAtic community. Have you heard about the new Terra Invest Strategy Discord server Orbital Command spun up? If you’re looking for a chill place to chat about different LUNA stacking strategies, or looking for some alpha, or if you’re trying to find the best UST farms, or even if you just have a quick question you need answered, be sure to stop by TIS and say hi to the Orbital Command gang. Hell, I’m even in there sometimes when I’m not editing hours of Cephii Spaces. You can find me in that server chatting about NFTs and answering basic Terra LUNA questions. The link to the server is in the show notes and for more information check out TerraSpaces appreciates the support from all our sponsors. Today on The Ether we have the Prism Protocol AMA hosted by RyanLion and the Prism team. Let’s take a listen.

RyanLion 2:17
Ser Jimmy. Cozy Spaces, Jimmy.

lejimmy 2:20
Yeah, keep it cozy.

RyanLion 2:26
How are you doing, man?

lejimmy 2:27
Doing good, man. Today has just flown by.

RyanLion 2:31
It’s been a long day.

lejimmy 2:34
Yeah, it’s been kind of crazy. Let me share this link around.

RyanLion 2:40
I’ll do the same.

lejimmy 2:42
Tweeted it. I’ll share it on Telegram. Let’s go to Discord.

RyanLion 2:52
Oh, we got a few people filing in here.

lejimmy 2:54
Join in, ask some questions.

RyanLion 2:57
Yeah, guys. Feel free to throw up your hands, come and ask us a question, even if you think it’s a silly question. There’s lots of different levels of Prism user today, we’re about 10 hours in. Yeah, come and ask questions.

lejimmy 2:59
What should I pin?

RyanLion 3:06
No, don’t pin it.

lejimmy 3:20
Let’s see. We got more people.

RyanLion 3:24
Do you want to just go for inviting everyone to speak? [chuckle]

lejimmy 3:28
Okay, let’s do it. Oh, I think you have to make me host. Or co-host.

RyanLion 3:35
How have you found things so far, Jimmy.

lejimmy 3:38
What did you say?

RyanLion 3:38
How have you found things so far?

lejimmy 3:41
Today has been hectic for sure, super hectic. I mean, I didn’t even do much trading at all. I’ve just been answering a bunch of questions. And then anytime I go and see a trade, usually my Ledger is too slow and arb is closed before I can even finish the first transaction.

RyanLion 4:04
I’ve had the most… I must say I’ve had the most fun trading today in a very long time. It’s just been pretty crazy, everyone trying to figure out what the hell’s going on. The swing to pLUNA, and then the swing back to yLUNA. It’s been wild.

lejimmy 4:24
Where are we at now? Are we pretty stable?

RyanLion 4:26
We almost 50:50 again.

lejimmy 4:30
What’s happening? Okay, well. I mean, the market’s figuring out what they want. I’m actually surprised by how much yLUNA is just sitting there doing nothing out there.

RyanLion 4:49
Yeah, I wonder what’s going on there. Basically, we’ve got the stuff in the liquidity pools.

lejimmy 4:56
Yeah, it could have gotten stuck in the liquidity pools. People are just holding them in their wallet waiting for an arb to happen or something. But I’m looking at now, we’ve got about 1,030,000 LUNA or so, and then only about a quarter, like 25%, a little bit more than 25% staked. That means there’s 750,000 LUNA, all the staking reward is buying PRISM. Which is absolutely nuts.

RyanLion 5:36
I thought I was being optimistic when I was estimating 15% yLUNA being staked but if you carry on like this… Yo, what’s up CryptoML. Thanks for running the Spaces earlier, had fun there. How are you doing?

CryptoML 5:50
Yeah, thanks for coming, guys. I’m showing yLUNA above pLUNA right now. Is that the first time today?

RyanLion 5:56
Yeah, I think last couple of hours. I think quite a few thread are going around. So I think we talked about it a bit earlier where, a lot of… Particularly people from traditional finance are kind of saying, “Well, does pLUNA have any value whatsoever?” And it’s causing quite a few threads of trying to value yLUNA vs. pLUNA. I think I saw someone say yLUNA should be 90% of the price. So I think that’s maybe swayed people’s thinking from earlier when we were 60:40 on the pLUNA side?

CryptoML 6:31
Yes, it just the first time I’m seeing it. I mean, even 15 minutes ago pLUNA was still a few bucks above yLUNA. So yeah, there’s still volatility out there, that’s for sure. And one more question, the volumes is still not fixed, is that correct?

RyanLion 6:51
Yeah, that’s right. So we got people coming online shortly, probably next few hours. And one of the things at the top of the priority is to just fix those volumes. So volumes on PRISM-UST and PRISM-xPRISM are accurate and showing UST values. And the other four pools are all actually showing volumes in terms of the amount of the LUNA asset that has been traded.

CryptoML 7:22
Okay, and it looks like good growth in the pLUNA and yLUNA pool. Have you guys added more TVL or is that just all organic?

RyanLion 7:31
That’s organic right now. I think we’re looking at doing an add probably in the next 12-24 hours. Yeah, TBC

CryptoML 7:44

RyanLion 7:45
Anyone got any questions? How many people we’ve got in here now? 50 people? No one’s got any questions about…

lejimmy 7:54
It’s still cozy. Someone’s gonna ask anything.

RyanLion 7:58
No stupid questions, honestly. Me and Jimmy have been answering silly questions all day in Telegram, in Discord. I’ve been in UK LUNAtics, they’re all like, “You’ve been telling us about this for months and we still got no clue what the hell’s going on.” [chuckle] So please come and ask us questions.

lejimmy 8:18
I’m going through and inviting everyone to speak. Because if you guys are shy, this is your excuse.

CryptoML 8:28
I got another one, I guess. You said the yLUNA rewards are every hour. So those extra rewards from unstaked yLUNA, is that already automatically going back to buying back PRISM at this point?

lejimmy 8:44
For the yLUNA staking, every hour it converts all the stablecoins to LUNA and then it sticks it into the vault and refracts it and then makes it claimable to anyone staking in the yLUNA vault. So essentially what it’s doing is DCA-ing these stablecoins into LUNA and then when you claim you can convert it to whatever asset that you want. And so one of the things that I’ve been doing is, it’s a pretty risk averse strategy where I don’t really want to trade my pLUNA or my yLUNA. I don’t really have strong convictions on what I think the price should be, but I want to keep my entire stack, right. So I have a stack that’s refracted and pLUNA is just hanging out in my wallet and I’ve got yLUNA staked. And then when it’s time to claim my staking rewards, I’m going and just choosing either one, one or the other, pLUNA or yLUNA depending on what the ratio is like at the moment. That’s something I’ve been doing. Oh, if you guys don’t know, this is Jimmy on the Prism account by the way. Yeah so that’s kind of what I’ve been doing, I’m pretty risk averse. I’m not doing any degen trading or anything crazy like that.

RyanLion 10:24
No one can mistake those smooth tones, Jimmy. I think the question was are we swapping the rewards from the unstaked LUNA into PRISM already?

CryptoML 10:38
Yeah. Are we seeing buy pressure on PRISM from the unstaked yLUNA already?

lejimmy 10:45
I believe we are. I’ve been trying to follow the bot that’s running it. It’s definitely converting all of the swap fees into PRISM and giving it to xPRISM stakers. But then the transaction for claiming your the rewards, it’s so long, I’m having trouble reading it myself. But it should be distributing to xPRISM stakers, but I might want to get…

RyanLion 11:16
Have you looked at the Collector contract? ‘Cause I’m just looking at it now and I see that we’ve got cLUNA, pLUNA, and yLUNA in the Collector contract, is that the stuff that goes to the buybacks?

lejimmy 11:32
Yeah, everything goes back to the buybacks, but those could have come from the swap fees, and not the staking rewards.

RyanLion 11:40
I did see some native LUNA in there earlier as well. But it doesn’t look like we’ve got any right now. Well, there’s a tiny, tiny bit. I saw earlier there was five LUNA one time, and that was four LUNA another time.

lejimmy 11:55
Yeah but in terms of… Those are probably all coming from swap fees. But I’ve been trying to decipher the other ones, where it’s like… We’ve got seven validators, each validator has, I don’t know, however many stables it’s collecting each time. So the messages are super long, and they’re difficult to read, even for someone like me. So somewhere embedded in there, it should be should be going to buy PRISM and dispersing that to the governance contract.

RyanLion 12:28
And is that in the Collector contract? I don’t see that in the collector contract.

lejimmy 12:33
I actually don’t… I don’t think it’s gonna be in the Collector contract, because you have all this cLUNA and yLUNA in the vaults. So I think what the vault would do is just claim, convert everything to PRISM and then deposit to the governance contract. But I can ask one of the devs to clarify which transaction pattern we should be looking for if we want to track that.

RyanLion 12:56
Got it. And when we say we’re looking at the Collector contract, if you go to Extraterrestrial Finder, you can go to the Projects tab, you can hit Prism under Projects, and then there’s a list of a lot of contracts, like 15, 20 contracts, one of them is the Collector contract. And you can kind of see how many fees are sat in that contract at any particular time. And if you go through the transaction history, you can see it distributing rewards. I didn’t know you put it up on the screen there as well.

lejimmy 13:42
Kazzy did this for us. I helped him decode all the contracts. So now you guys can poke around and see what’s going on under the hood if you like.

RyanLion 13:56
Yeah, and for anyone who is interested in going even a deeper level, we will be open sourcing all the contracts. So they’ll be hitting our GitHub repository soon.

lejimmy 14:10
Yeah, we were getting some questions about that. For Prism Forge, as well as Prism Swap, we released the contracts right before we went mainnet. If you can appreciate the amount of contracts that get deployed earlier today, we’re just cleaning up some of the commentary and the readmes. And then they’ll be up on our GitHub shortly so you guys can dive in and really see what’s going on underneath the hood. But I’ll be posting about that probably within the next few days or so.

RyanLion 14:48
Cool. MvR, you’re up on the stage. Did you have a question for us?

MvR 14:55
Yeah, I have a question. Because it should also be 50:50 for the y and p LUNA.

RyanLion 15:05
In what sense?

MvR 15:07
Sorry, Ryan I could not hear you.

RyanLion 15:09
What’s the question?

MvR 15:12
Okay. You have your p and your y LUNA. You refract it and it should also always be 50:50. 50% pLUNA and 50% yLUNA to get your cLUNA or LUNA back.

RyanLion 15:28
That’s right. So when you reflect a LUNA you will be given one pLUNA on one yLUNA regardless of how those are priced against each other. And like Jimmy was just saying, his strategy and it’s similar to my broad strategy, which is I’m going to be staking my yLUNA to get my airdrop rewards. And I’m probably just going to be holding the pLUNA in my wallet, which guarantees me that if any point I want to go back to LUNA, I’m guaranteed to go back one to one if I decide to do the slow burn. So you actually go to the Refract page, you go to the Merge tab and you can put your yLUNA and pLUNA back together there to get a cLUNA. And then the cLUNA works the same as bLUNA, really, in terms of you can either slow burn it back for practically one to one with LUNA, or you can fast swap it where you’re probably going to be taking in a couple of percent here on that for the convenience, I guess.

MvR 16:43
Yeah. Okay, perfect. Thanks. That was all.

RyanLion 16:47
No, cool. No problem. You’re My Boy, $LUNA, what’s going on?

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 16:56
Hey, fellas, a couple quick questions for you. First of all, congrats. Things seem to be working smoothly. Firstly, curious this morning, I was working on a couple LUNA cLUNA arb opportunities and noticed in the UI the swap rate, sort of… The UI shows for example, with like a 10 LUNA to 10 cLUNA swap would be one value. And then if I tried to swap 100 LUNA to cLUNA, the rate change pretty significantly. Is that just a really conservative guesstimate on the UI? Or is the volume such that really the difference between a 10 and 100 LUNA swap is going to influence the price that much.

RyanLion 17:50
Yeah, good question. So I think particularly the cLUNA-PRISM pool right now is the slimmest pool in terms of liquidity. So it’s just over $900,000. So it’s still quite thin. We talked a bit earlier about how we had seeded the initial pools relatively thin, but we’re going to be building up liquidity over the coming days. As well as considering whether or not we incentivize liquidity through PRISM emissions. Right now we have zero PRISM emissions. All the APRs that you’re seeing are based on swap fees alone, so particularly in that cLUNA to LUNA swap, yeah, big volumes are going to be subject to slippage. So I would say particularly on that arb between LUNA and cLUNA, be very careful on that one with size right now. And if you go to the Pools page on Prism, you can see the liquidity, the depth of liquidity under the TVL. And hopefully, you’ll start to see that grow over the coming days, which will allow more sizable swaps.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 19:15
Gotcha. So do you feel like the swap rate that’s sort of estimated is actually pretty close to what you would expect if you completed the transaction?

RyanLion 19:26
I believe so. Jimmy might be able to speak a bit more to the technicals of that, but I believe it simulates the swap. So as long as there’s not someone else’s swapping a couple of seconds before you, it should be fairly accurate what you’re seeing there.

lejimmy 19:43
Yeah, it’ll be pretty close. On the Instant Burn, you don’t have control over the slippage that you want to set. So if you want a little bit more control over that, you can head over to the Swap page and you can choose cLUNA to LUNA, or cLUNA to whatever asset that you’d like. And then a couple of people have missed it. But there is a little checkmark for slow burning on the redemption page as well. So if you got yourself a good arb and you don’t mind waiting the 21 days to do this slow burn, you can guarantee yourself 1:1 back from cLUNA to LUNA.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 20:29
Gotcha. Last one for me is is there some sort of Jedi move that maybe I’m not aware of when you’re looking at, say, an arb opportunity? I’m just sort of changing the number of, in this case, LUNA, I might be executing a swap for cLUNA to see the price update in the UI. Is there a better method than that just to get as accurate as possible quote on a swap rate?

lejimmy 21:00
I think that’s the best way. That simulates based on how much you’re offering, the liquidity, and then the swap fees, and then it’s given you a number. So I would say that’s already the most automated way on how to get an estimate on your swap.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 21:25
Cool. Thanks fellas.

RyanLion 21:27
No worries. Thanks for the question. Feel free to hang around on stage, if anything else pops into your head, for now. And we’ve got Maryan up on stage, I don’t feel we’ve got anyone else queued up. So if anyone else does have any questions, no matter how simple, feel free to request and come up on stage. Maryan, over to you, ser.

Maryan 21:50
Hey, guys, can you hear me?

lejimmy 21:53

Maryan 21:53
Am I on?

lejimmy 21:56
Yeah, we got you.

Maryan 21:57
Okay, great. So I’m kind of new to the protocol. But I guess I’m trying to figure out the value of pLUNA and specifically why we say pLUNA is price exposure. When I look at the yLUNA, for example, it gives us staking yields and whatnot and so it has something to back that up. And so on the other hand, there’s pLUNA, which from what I understand there’s really nothing behind it. And so when the market, kind of… What’s the word? When the market determine yLUNA to be the price exposure, more so the leveraged play as LUNA goes up in price, because there’s something behind yLUNA, whereas pLUNA is kind of this other token that, I guess from my perspective, doesn’t have anything backing it up. And so I guess I’m wondering why we view pLUNA as the price exposure token. Thanks.

lejimmy 22:54
Ryan, this is all you, please.

RyanLion 22:55
[laughter] I was looking at you. So I think if you take a look at the White Paper, what this this kind of model is, is based on kind of like bond asset stripping, where you strip out the yield part of a share or a bond for a certain period of time. And you’re going to have the principle token. And you sell off the yield, and you retain the principal, and then eventually the principal then regains the rights to the yield. So we do have fixed maturities coming down the line and I think that makes a lot more sense from a kind of principle and yield perspective. And when it comes to the perpetuals, we have had particularly people from traditional finance coming in and saying, “Well, does the pLUNA actually have any value whatsoever?” I think a couple of things that pLUNA retains, so I think one of the things is that some people have described pLUNA as being the bottle cap to be able to redeem the p and y together back for a full LUNA. And the pLUNA side also, although we haven’t got it implemented in the protocol yet, will retain the throughput governance rights for voting on Terra proposals. In terms of other utility, I guess it is compared to yLUNA. It doesn’t have as much use case. But we are also working on use case for the p token to be used as collateral in other protocols. So I’m not from a traditional finance background so I think I’ll probably leave the debate to those people and to the community. And ultimately, it’s up to the market to decide how these things trade against each other. I think that’s as much as I’ve got to say on it, Jimmy.

lejimmy 25:13
No, I think you touched on all the big points there. Essentially, it just comes down to whatever the market is going to decide the price. And for us as just protocol team members, we’re working and collaborating with as many other protocols and other opportunities where we can just increase the utility of both, not only the y token and the p token. And I mean, there’s only 100 people in here. I kind of leaked it out earlier on Twitter already underneath Nick, one of his tweets, where I just mentioned that because we’re working with some of our validator partners, one of them happens to be Coinhall. And Coinhall has that awesome stake-to-subscribe kind of platform. If you hold some pLUNA, it gives you some perks when you visit Coinhall and you connect your wallet and it sees how much pLUNA that you have in your wallet, right. So that’s just one small additional use case for the utility for pLUNA. And we’re excited to continue to build on that. And not only for pLUNA, but all of the bAssets and all the other LPs assets that we’re also going to be reflecting in the near future as well.

RyanLion 26:41
What are your thoughts, Maryan?

Maryan 26:44
Oh, yeah. So I guess I mean, there’s just a lot for me to think about, kind of a lot that you mentioned that I’m not familiar with, the bonds and other things early on, or the other markets. But I guess my question is, so in theory if LUNA jumps to $500 or $1,000. And I’m all in pLUNA right now, right? Sorry, I don’t have to split, I went all in to pLUNA. Is it possible that I guess my total will be less than 1x? You know, so instead of getting more price exposure, I got less price exposure than had I had if I stayed in LUNA itself?

RyanLion 27:24
That is definitely possible. The general theory is that, the general kind of meet in the middle theories that I’ve seen going around, so we’ve been building up to this protocol launch for probably six to seven months now. And there’s been a lot of discussion around where does p and y stand. And some people are just extremely bullish on yLUNA and they think that yLUNA, it carries the vast majority of the value because it gives you access to regular income via the staking rewards. And other people are extremely bullish on pLUNA, and they think that it’s kind of leverage price exposure to LUNA. And then there’s kind of the middle consensus seems to be that, basically… If the price of LUNA was to go down from here, let’s say it goes down to $30. And I think Mr. Refractor, or Hyperion, the founder of Prism has shared this graphic quite a lot. If the price of LUNA goes down the actual APR of staking LUNA goes up, because there’s a significant portion of LUNA rewards that are paid out in stablecoins.

RyanLion 28:45
So the general theory is that as the price goes down, the y token becomes more valuable because the yields increases. And then the kind of consensus theory is that as the price goes up, again, because you’ve got a big chunk of the rewards being paid out in stables, then theoretically, the staking reward will go down. So it’s currently hanging around 10% ish, probably go down to like 7%, 8% as we grow, let’s say we double in price. So theoretically, there’s less yield going to the yLUNA token, which means that p would carry the majority of the price increase. Now that’s the theory level and we’ve been theorizing about where these assets will trade for many, many months. But I kind of refer to my previous answer, which is, that’s the theory, but it is entirely up to the market how these assets ultimately do trade against each other. So there’s nothing we can do to influence that if the market decides that pLUNA is worth 1% and yLUNA is worth 99%, so be it. If they’ve decided it’s the other way around, so be it. We’re kind of at the behest of the market right now. So I guess the general advice that we’ve been giving out to people leading up to this launch is maybe sit and watch and see how things go before you decide to take any position, if you decide to take any position at all. And only kind of go in strongly one way or another. If you really have a strongly held belief over where these assets should trade.

lejimmy 30:40
That helps, ser. Looks like we’ve got Simone on the stage. Simone, you have a question for us?

Simone 30:46
Yeah. Hi, everybody. Can you hear me?

lejimmy 30:48
Yeah, we gotcha.

Simone 30:50
Okay. First of all, congratulations for the launch and to enable the refraction because it’s amazing to use. And it’s a very fresh air. It’s very interesting, the discussion about yLUNA and pLUNA because at the moment the usage of pLUNA is rather limited. So I presume the most value should go in the yLUNA. But as you said before, if the usage of pLUNA will enable more usages, it could be raised. Just a question. Did you do some hypothesis on which could be the correct pricing of yLUNA and pLUNA? I know that it started at 50 and 50 but at the moment I see much more value in yLUNA. What do you think about it?

RyanLion 31:52
I guess I’ll go first. So yeah, me and Jimmy are not the financial analysts of the team. The founder, Hyperion, is from a background in fixed income, trading options. And he and a couple of other people on the team have got probably much stronger views around where they should trade, although we typically not… Not being particularly vocal with those and just allowing the market to ultimately decide. We had quite a lot of debate around where do we… Because I mean, the only decision that we had to make around the price of the assets was where do we see the initial liquidity. And the debate was probably around the 40:60 mark either way. So whether it be 40 y, 60 p, or 60 y, 40 p. And ultimately, we couldn’t make a decision ourselves and decided, well, let’s just start it down the middle and see where the market takes it. And very interestingly, just ’cause I’ve got the screen in front of me right now, I think we’ve gone about 10% either way over the course of the day. I’m sorry that we don’t have the analytics or the trading chart up on the site yet, that’s coming soon. We’ll have the kind of history of where y and p are trading in relation to each other. But yeah, they’ve kind of fluctuated between that exact range that we’d been debating around. And they’ve currently found consensus back in the middle. Yeah, so I think that’s as much as I can say on that matter.

Simone 33:52
I think the most interesting thing as today is that the pLUNA represent the truly value of governance. And I think, in my memory it’s the first time that a community can price, the ability to vote. I don’t know if the community realized it yet. But it’s very interesting to see how the prices will move in the next future.

RyanLion 34:24
Yeah, for sure. It’s been the great mystery leading up to the protocol launch, all the theorizing, all the debate, all the intellectual thinking has been where these assets going to trade. So it’s after many, many months leading up to this, it’s absolutely fascinating to sit here and watch how they do play out against each other. I look forward to seeing more over the days, weeks and months to come.

Simone 34:57
Thank you very much. And congrats another time.

RyanLion 35:01
Thank you, Simone. Appreciate the question. Jimmy, thanks for leaving me here to answer all the hard questions. [chuckle] You’re supposed to be the big brain guy out of me and you.

lejimmy 35:14
I just feel like I don’t have much to add. It’s like… I mean, we’ve talked about it for so much, but at the end of the day it really comes down to everyone’s perception of what these tokens represent, what they can do, and what that means for them, right. And unless we start getting into the extremes, I don’t think I’ll be making any plays. Outside of the 70:30 range is when I might start seriously considering training one for the other. But until then, we’re just bouncing back and forth between this plus or minus 10% range.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 35:57
I’ve got an easy one for you, Ryan, to make up for the hard one.

RyanLion 36:01
Oh, thank you, thank you. I was maybe thinking I’d be taking questions on why isn’t the liquidity showing properly, or how does xPRISM work. And then I’m getting into deep financial instrument conversations. Go ahead.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 36:20
I’ll drop your lifeline here. Could you perhaps cough once if AMPS are going to be live within the next, say, seven days, cough twice if longer?

RyanLion 36:36
Oh, gosh, I think you’re right on the cusp of there. But I think the best person to answer that question is Jimmy, because this is really his baby.

lejimmy 36:42


You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 36:44
That’s what I wanted to hear. Thank you, ser.

RyanLion 36:46
While we’re on it, if you’ve got any more questions on that mechanism, and since no one else is… Since everyone else is being shy and not coming up here to ask questions, feel free to grill Jimmy on the mechanism.

lejimmy 36:58
Yeah, please grill me on the AMPS mechanism. There have been so many questions that no one has asked about it yet.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 37:07
I’m excited about it as all these arb Jedis have been scoring huge. I’ve just been kind of hanging out with my small bag of xPRISM cackling and I particularly enjoyed your intro about the amount of unstacked yLUNA at the moment. But I think there’s some strategy plays that some including myself might be looking to make, but it’s going to depend on whether these AMPS are going to be substantial or not so I think getting some intel even if it was like a range could be useful. And it would be useful to know also before the LPs incentives go live in the farming event too.

lejimmy 38:00
Okay so even before the boosts… Obviously I’m biased, right, and all the disclosures that you need to hear about not making decisions. I personally feel like people are going to be shocked by the APRs coming out of the PRISM farm. And this is before the boosts, okay. One that’s because there’s only like 250,000 yLUNA that is currently being staked. The rest of the yLUNA, I don’t know what it’s doing, might be in the liquidity farms, might be in people’s wallet, could be… I don’t know, they’re not utilizing it. But let’s say the PRISM Farm goes live, right, where you can stake your yLUNA and you’ll earn your share of the 130 million PRISM tokens that are going to be distributed over the course of a year. If all 250,000 yLUNA and goes staked itself into the PRISM Farm instead of the regular yLUNA staking. And if PRISM continues to trade at 40 cents and if yLUNA continues to trade at around $25, $26 the APRs in that pool are gonna be like 400% or something like that on yLUNA. Okay, so that just means that, one, there’s just not enough LUNA that’s being refracted to take advantage of the farms coming out, the APR that are coming up for the PRISM farm. And that’s just how the math shakes out right now. So then if you include boosties on there it essentially will help the PRISM token retain its value by incentivizing folks to buy PRISM tokens, hold PRISM tokens, pledge them for the AMPS. And essentially keep yourself from being diluted from farmers who think that they’re just going to farm the PRISM tokens and exchange them for a bigger LUNA stack. Yeah, so that’s a few things that I’m kind of eyeing right now and kind of excited about because the PRISM Farm is just… I think it’s going to be… At this moment, it’s going to be completely underutilized by the TVL that we have, or the active yLUNA that’s being staked.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 40:46
Have you guys shared when to expect the PRISM Farm to open up?

lejimmy 40:54
We haven’t given any new updates on it. I know our ETA was the 16th. However, we just implemented the boosting contract. So I would say at the earliest you can expect is the 16th.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 41:14
Okay, and I think I heard you say the boosties would be north of 10% increase, did I hear that correctly?

lejimmy 41:25
It’ll be…

RyanLion 41:26
This is really good grilling. I love it.

lejimmy 41:28
This it’ll be more. So okay, so one of the things that we have to firm up is where do these boosts come from, right. How’s it being boosted? So, of the 130 million PRISM tokens that we set aside for this PRISM Farm, essentially what we’re… Let’s just say we go with a 50% ratio, what we would do is we would split up that 130 million into two parts, right, 65 million each. So if you don’t pledge any xPRISM, if you’re not accruing any AMPS, essentially, you only have yLUNA, you will be taking your share of the 65 million PRISM, right, the half of the 130 million. But if you also hold AMPS and you’re earning AMPS, then it opens you up to the remaining 65 million, right. So it can get really nutty, depending on how you calculate your APRs, right. So on one extreme, you could have only yLUNA, you have zero xPRISM, you have zero AMPS. And you’re going to be earning a certain APR. And then on the other extreme, you could have nearly almost no yLUNA, but you could have a whole bunch of xPRISM earning AMPS and you could still earn a bunch of PRISM. And then somewhere in the middle probably makes sense where you have an equivalent… Somewhat equivalent amount of xPRISM earning AMPS, as well as yLUNA in the farm. So essentially it starts creating this flywheel effect where your yLUNA and your xPRISM is earning you a bunch of PRISM and creates this flywheel. But yeah, so that’s essentially something that we’re thinking about right now. What is exactly that ratio and it will drive a lot of the dynamics around, yeah, how much boost you’re getting from holding xPRISM.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 43:52
And did you say there would be some sort of tier structure where you’ve got to pledge a certain amount of xPRISM in order to get like the maximum boostie effect?

lejimmy 44:05
Yeah, so there’s no tiers, but there is a max… So some of the things that people haven’t asked are, is there is there a limit, and will I be discouraged, say six months later on, will new users be discouraged from using the boosters because there are other folks that have been in there since the genesis and they have earned too many boosts and they just feel like it’s not worth it. So to answer some of those mechanisms and those questions and concerns around that is, one, each xPRISM can only earn a maximum boost. Right now we’re thinking a maximum boost of around 100 and the boost accrue every hour or so, and the rate at which it accrues right now, it would take roughly 300 days or 10 months for you to reach your maximum boost. So a few things result from that, is that number one, if this protocol is around and 5, 10, 20 years, that means that a new entrant won’t be discouraged, because they’ll be able to catch up in a matter of 10 months, right. And there’s actually even a curve, so in half of the time, so around 150 days, you’ll be able to accrue 70% of the max boost, right. So it’s like a little log function. So it essentially helps you to catch up with folks that have been in the pool for a little bit longer. But if you are in the pool for a little bit longer, you’re still accruing rewards.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 46:02
When you say a maximum of 100, are you saying a maximum of 100 tokens farmed per xPRISM? What do you mean by 100?

lejimmy 46:10
Oh, no, sorry. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, happy to clarify. So it’s like 1 xPRISM can earn a max boost of 100 AMPS.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 46:22
Okay, and then so we’ve got to solve for once you decide what the AMPS effect is, then we’ll have what we need to kind of project the net difference in yield, if you will, from the AMP effect?

lejimmy 46:38
Yeah, totally, you will be able to say, “Oh, in the PRISM farm I’m receiving this many PRISM tokens from the base pool. And because of the AMPS that I have that have been accruing, I can calculate how much boosts I’m getting.” And it can be quite significant and that’s just because right now 130 million tokens is quite a lot compared to only 250,000 yLUNA that’s being utilized and staked.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 47:09
Got it. So what do you think about… It seems like we’re setting up a competition of sorts between xPRISM holders who are LP-ing PRISM-xPRISM, and this opportunity to get the AMPS. So in your mind is there a trade off, which would be more beneficial if your goal is to produce fees and accrue tokens?

lejimmy 47:45
Yeah, so I think personally I believe that the xPRISM just on its own has a lot more, what do you call it, earning potential, right. It’s earning from every single six pools, going up to seven pools here shortly, it’s earning from all the vaults, and of course, we’ve got the limit orders coming up soon. So there’s just a lot of ways that the xPRISM is accruing value. And then you’d have to do some math on the actual volume going between PRISM and xPRISM before you can decide is it worth splitting up half of my stack into PRISM to LP PRISM-xPRISM? Or should I just hold xPRISM altogether, right. And now that we have this boosting contract… We did chat a little bit about, “Oh, should we allow folks to deposit xPRISM-PRISM LP into this boosting contract?” But just from the devs point of view, it makes things a bit overly complicated on calculating amounts and then considering how much xPRISM your LP is worth, right. So yeah, you’re totally right, you’d have to make a decision between, “Do I want to earn AMPS in this boosting contract? Or am I okay with the PRISM-xPRISM LP fees and half of that also earning xPRISM governance rewards?”

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 49:33
Gotcha. All right, last softball for me and then I’ll let whoever would like to go next go. But it sounds like we would have to pledge or deposit our xPRISM into some sort of vault in order to participate. Does xPRISM deposited in that way continue to earn all the fees and regular kind of xPRISM benefits while it’s in that vault, or those forgone?

lejimmy 50:01
Nope, you’re gonna be earning all the regular governance and fees from the protocol when you’re in this boosted vault.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 50:12
Nice. Alright, you’re my boy, Jimmy.

RyanLion 50:17
Great questions, I enjoyed that grilling, really enjoyed it. Oh, we had some people queued, but they’ve disappeared. Oh, MvR’s coming back up. Let me just add these folks. Looks like we’ve got… Yeah, yeah, we got you.

The Wagmi Fren 50:42
Oh, sure. I have two pretty simple UI questions, actually. The one is on yLUNA when you have it staked, when it has that drop down that says… Is that selecting for what you want to turn all your staking rewards into? Do I have that right?

lejimmy 51:08
Yep. So on the yLUNA staking page, you have this Claim and Convert button. You can choose between I think pLUNA, yLUNA, I’m not sure if cLUNA is in there. I can’t remember now. And there’s PRISM-xPRISM, and at the very bottom you have a button for if you don’t want to convert them at all, you just want to receive your pLUNA and yLUNA just as they are. But yeah, so yeah, kind of lets you choose if you want to convert your staking rewards on that drop down.

The Wagmi Fren 51:49
Okay, cool. That’s sort of what I thought. I was just… Especially with the testnet and everything, it was a little buggy when I was looking at it. So it didn’t quite make sense. The other thing is on the Swap page, sometimes when you enter something in and go to swap, it just gives you that sort of “No”, the circle with the line through it, what’s usually going on there?

lejimmy 52:16
From what I’ve seen it’s like a bug that happens when it’s simulating based on your slippage and it’s getting an error. So that could mean a few things. Depending on which pairs you’re trying to swap between, maybe your slippage is not high enough. And for myself, the way that I’ve been able to fix it when I keep getting that grayed out Swap box, or just do like a hard refresh. Essentially, restart the app. Or if you’re on a computer on Windows, I use Ctrl+F5. And afterwards, it usually does the trick.

The Wagmi Fren 52:55
Yeah, that’s sometimes worked for me. Sometimes I’ve also just press the arrow button to have the pairs you’re trading between switch, and then flip back. And sometimes that will do it too, I don’t know if that helps other people. But yeah, that’s something I found too. Well, that’s all I have.

lejimmy 53:14
Yeah, we definitely have that logged and we got feedback from that as well. So that’s something that the dev has on their, on their backlog of things to work on.

The Wagmi Fren 53:24
Cool. Sounds great. Great first day, guys. [chuckle]

lejimmy 53:29
Thank you for the questions.

RyanLion 53:31
Thanks, man. And who’s next here? It was MvR next up, I believe.

MvR 53:39
Thank you guys. I have another question. To move on on the previous question from the guy before me, for the percentage of staking rewards on the yLUNA staking, will it show the percentage for pLUNA you can get and the percentage of yLUNA you can get or will just be one APR?

lejimmy 54:08
It’ll just be one APR. But I think the more interesting thing… Since we’re not showing anything right now and we’ve got to do the calculations to show it on the frontend. But the APR is being calculated based on the price of yLUNA and not the entire LUNA, right. But yLUNA entitles you to the staking rewards of what you normally get from LUNA. So at this time, if LUNA is about $50, and the staking rewards are 10%, that means in one year one LUNA is giving you $5. And right now, yLUNA is trading about, let’s just say, around half, right. So you essentially will be doubling the APR for yLUNA staking, which is pretty interesting considering that you’re budding up right next to Anchor Earn type APR with also giving you some partial exposure to the price of LUNA essentially.

MvR 55:25
Yeah, that sounds great. I was wondering how it will work and thanks for that information. And then add one more question about the governance. If you stake your xPRISM, it boost your pools or it’s just your stake?

lejimmy 55:51
Right now we’re building it to be primarily used for the PRISM Farm but later on were looking at other functionalities to make AMPS, essentially the boost, pretty pervasive throughout the protocol, right. When we have incentives for LP positions it can boost those rewards, it can potentially boost the xPRISM governance rewards, and of course give you more voting power for any polls that come up.

MvR 56:27
Okay, perfect. So your xPRISM governance pool will boost your PRISM Farm.

lejimmy 56:32
Yes, exactly. That’s the first use case that will be implemented.

MvR 56:38
Perfect. And we will see when the other things happen and it can take time I understand. Perfect. Thanks for the information.

RyanLion 56:47
Thanks for the question, ser. Mr. Panterra, how are we this evening? Welcome to the stage.

Panterra 56:58
Hey, how’s everybody doing tonight on this fine evening?

RyanLion 57:02
Glorious, glorious, how are you?

lejimmy 57:04
Absolutely glorious. How’s the Terra Bites validator doing, ser? Heard you had some windfalls recently.

Panterra 57:14
Yeah, we got a nice delegation today, moved up to 25. Not that it’s about what position we’re in. We love all the validators. We want everybody to succeed, high tide raises all ships. But congrats to you guys on the launch. I’m gonna move the spotlight back on you. [chuckle] Over a million LUNA, looks like, refracted in the first day, less than 24 hours. So that’s very impressive. Congratulations, guys.

lejimmy 57:43
Thank you, ser, couldn’t have been without everyone’s help, honestly, along the way.

Panterra 57:48
So I’m sorry I joined late here and someone else might have already talked about this or asked this. But there was some interesting theories floating around all day about pLUNA and its perpetual state. And again, sorry if this has already been addressed, but I was just curious what your guys thoughts were on some of those theories and on the value of that pLUNA and how it played out today?

RyanLion 58:13
Oh, my goodness, Evan. This is possibly the third time that this has been asked and… No it’s all good. Myself and Jimmy are not the best place to answer it. I think it’s been very interesting to see how it’s played out. We see a range of opinions, not just now, but over the last 6-7 months around how these things play out, or going to play out. And I’ve seen a particular trend from folks from TradFi that are kind of heavily weighting the value of yLUNA versus pLUNA. We had a lot of internal debate particularly with Hyperion and given his background and some of our partners as well in terms of where do we see this thingl and we had a discussion around… We were somewhere in between 40:60 either way and we ended up seeding 50%. Personally I was a little bit surprised to see pLUNA taking an early lead, as you say, particularly on the perpetual split. And also given that pLUNA doesn’t have a large amount of utility out of the gate I expected there to be a lot of interest in yLUNA and boosting yields, particularly when you’re staking yLUNA and Jimmy said yLUNA is kind of giving around about 20% APR and we’re also doing the stablecoin swap into LUNA before we reflect that LUNA and then give rewards in just pLUNA and yLUNA. I thought that yLUNA would be a lot stronger out of the gate. So pLUNA took the lead and I think yLUNA is still in front, and I think we’re just looking now… Yeah, yLUNA’s looking at probably about 55% of the value of LUNA. So it’s been trading within the margins that we expected, that we’d anticipated. And ultimately it’s up to the market how they value these things. What are your thoughts on where these things should trade?

Panterra 1:00:46
Oh, man. I don’t have a crystal ball. Ryan, so I can’t tell. But I don’t know, I saw theories going both ways today. So I’ll just leave it at that. I think it’s interesting. The market will decide. I’m kind of given a non answer like you. But I do know that if the price of LUNA goes up, I don’t see why pLUNA wouldn’t also go up, because you at least need that to combine with the yLUNA to get your full LUNA back at the end of the day. So I’m curious to see what the impact will be on yLUNA once there’s 3 months, 6 months, 12 months bonding. I think that’ll be interesting to see how people start sort of speculating on if they can make a buck off the refrecting at that point.

RyanLion 1:01:42
Yeah, so that’ll be a separate function, right. So these perpetual pLUNA and yLUNA will always kind of trade separately from the fixed maturities. I think fixed maturities make a lot more sense to people in terms of if you’re refracting LUNA for 12 months, given the staking ratio, or the staking returns, you can make a pretty good estimation in terms of what that yield is worth over a 12 month period. Obviously, there’ll be fluctuation in LUNA price, whether that price goes up or whether it goes down, which will then affect ultimately, the returns from that yLUNA. But I think in that scenario, it’ll be much clearer what the value of a 12 months, or a 6 months, or a 3 months yLUNA token would be, versus this perpetual auction where it’s really the value that the market places on them, if that makes sense.

Panterra 1:02:48
Yeah, so there’ll be like a 3yLUNA, and a 6yLUNA, and a 12yLUNA token that are separate from the perpetual? Is that what you’re saying?

RyanLion 1:02:58
Yeah, absolutely. So obviously, when we bring in fixed maturities, those different maturity lengths will essentially kind of trade against themselves to a certain extent, or I guess there’ll be a pool with like a 6 month with a certain expiry date on them, where ultimately the yLUNA will trend down to zero value, because at the end of the maturity, at the end of date, all the yield token will ultimately return back to the holder of the p token because they’ve only sold that yield for a certain amount of time.

lejimmy 1:03:48
I’m kind of curious on what people’s number would be when they look at the yield, the APR of yLUNA, and also on the same screen, look at the yield of AMPS. If yLUNA was trading at, I don’t know, 60%, 70%, 80% of LUNA, at what point do you say, “Okay, this is kind of absurd. Why am I excepting 5% or 10% when I can just sell this and go put it into Anchor, right, to guarantee myself 20% returns versus a fluctuating, say 5% or 10% from yLUNA?” That’s if the yLUNA ratio starts taking over the pLUNA ratio.

RyanLion 1:04:43
I hope that kind of answers the question, Evan. I don’t know if you’ve got any other questions while you’re up here, ser.

Panterra 1:04:54
Yeah, I guess I can throw one more at you. I know in the white paper you guys had mentioned very briefly. And it looks like you’ve got some grayed out functionality on the website now that there’s limit orders. Can you talk about that at all? Is there some sort of staking you need to do to be able to have limit orders placed or how that works?

RyanLion 1:05:19
Jimmy is this probably more in your realm?

lejimmy 1:05:21
Yeah, so there’s not gonna be any kind of requirements like Miaw Trader, or no requirements like the stake to subscribe that you see on Coinhall. Essentially, anyone will be able to deposit any assets into the limit order staking contract. And then depending on what kind of orders that you’re placing, there will be bots that will essentially fire off when the orders should succeed. And then the way that the protocol makes a fee for this service is there’s going to be, I think, it’s 0.3% fee on the limit orders, which goes back to, of course, xPRISM holders. So I think initially we’re going to launch that with the pairs on PRISM Swap. But through our ongoing partnership with the folks at Coinhall we want to be able to open up this functionality, since it’s actually DEX agnostic, and limit orders can work for any DEX on the Terra ecosystem. But still, all of the fees will flow back to xPRISM holders.

Panterra 1:06:46
Very nice. Very nice. I think that’s a cool bit of functionality and definitely a reasonable little fee. And the fact that it goes back to the xPRISM token holders, I think it’s well designed. I also just one more comment for you guys.

RyanLion 1:07:02
Can I just add one little thing to the limit order piece, which is they’ll be…

Panterra 1:07:09
It’s your AMA.

RyanLion 1:07:10
No, no no. ‘Cause I think I’m really, really excited for limit orders. And I can’t wait to see it working because particularly for something like placing orders on a LUNA-bLUNA pair, for example, or you can go across different pairs, any pair on any DEX. I guess the difference between how it’s gonna work with how Miaw Trader works now is that we’re going to incentivize the person who executes the swap, as well as having the fee that goes back to xPRISM holders. So the hope is that we’ll basically incentivize multiple bots to be running that are executing these limit orders, so that there’s a much higher chance of fulfillment than, for example, the functionality that’s currently within Miaw Trader.

Panterra 1:08:06
I gotcha. So if I understand correctly, the fee doesn’t go 100% to xPRISM, but it also goes to some of those people that are, what do they call that, crossing the threshold or whatever to make the trade.

RyanLion 1:08:17
Yeah, exactly.

Panterra 1:08:18
Yeah. Cool. Cool. Well, yeah. Great launch, guys. I want to commend you, over a million LUNA refracted in like 12 hours or whatever. That’s amazing. And one more comment from me, before I leave is I love… This is like… I can’t believe no one’s done this before. But on the interface in the swap module, you show all the prices up above. And it’s such a pain in the ass on every other interface. Sorry, if there’s other devs in here. But it’s such a pain in the ass to be like, “What is my quoted price right now of LUNA?” And then I have to punch in one LUNA and then punch in UST to see what it is. So that’s just really thoughtful interface, guys. So I’ll jump off now. Thanks.

RyanLion 1:09:05
Nice to speak with you as always, ser.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 1:09:08
Hey, Ryan, quick clarifier on the limit order discussion. It sounded like you just implied that we could get kind of like an arb focused limit order. Could I place a limit order that says, “Hey, trigger when there’s a 4% arb opportunity between cLUNA-LUNA”?

RyanLion 1:09:31
Yeah, absolutely. So you would deposit, I don’t know, in the case of… I guess it’s more likely that cLUNA would be trading at under the price of LUNA, right? So you could deposit from LUNA and say when there’s a 5% discount, I want my limit order to be fulfilled. We’re hoping that, as I was just describing there, through the fee structure that we actually incentivize multiple people to be running bots that are kind of checking the price. And if the price hits the right target, they’ll fulfill the order, receive their cut of the fees, and hopefully, give you the trade that you’re looking for.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 1:10:18
And that’ll be there when limit orders go live?

RyanLion 1:10:23
Yeah, I’m not 100% sure. Maybe Jimmy can clarify. I’m not 100% sure where we are on limit orders. I know we were pretty close. I mean, as you can see, we’ve launched without a couple of bits of functionality, like the charts and stuff. That will be coming soon. I’m not 100% sure where we are on limit orders. Jimmy, do you know?

lejimmy 1:10:43
I don’t know, either. I know we’re just full steam ahead on the boosting contract, as well as getting PRISM Farm up and running as soon as possible.

RyanLion 1:10:52
I think the contract’s written, it’s audited. I think we’re waiting on the chart implementation, and then limit orders will follow.

You’re My Boy, $LUNA! 1:11:05
Okay, cool. Thanks.

RyanLion 1:11:06
Thanks for the question. Yes, Prosselenen?

Prosselenen 1:11:15
That’s right, thanks. I just want to say first and foremost, congratulations, as everyone else have been super impressed with, obviously, the whole concept, but just the whole procedure in the UI is beautiful. So you guys have done a really great job with everything. Congratulations.

RyanLion 1:11:37
Thank you.

Prosselenen 1:11:38
I have some questions just on these maturities. Can I just confirm… So this is first question. I should say I haven’t read the white paper. So I’m gonna have some rookie questions. But the first rookie question is, just to be really clear, is there any direct relationship between the perpetual tokens that are currently being traded, and the maturities? Or are they separate tokens?

RyanLion 1:12:00
They will be separate tokens.

Prosselenen 1:12:03
Good. Okay. And so, obviously, currently people are super incentivized to enter liquidity pools with the perpetual tokens. So what’s the shortest timeframe for the maturities? Is it three months or something?

RyanLion 1:12:19
The plan is to do 3, 6, and 12, potentially 9 as well. I think 3, 6 and 12 months.

Prosselenen 1:12:27
So, presumably there will be liquidity pools in the case of even the three month maturities? Because you’d want to trade, right. But over three months, any kind of yield is going to be very low. Is there some extra kind of incentive that you’ll be giving to people to enter a liquidity pool with three month pLUNA or yLUNA in the short term?

RyanLion 1:13:00
Yes, that’s a really good question. And the honest answer is that’s ultimately the problem around releasing these fixed maturity assets is providing the right amount of liquidity and the right incentives to provide liquidity for those tokens. So it’s not the next thing that’s on the roadmap. So in terms of roadmap, the next two things are going to be bAsset vaults, or bAsset refraction. So obviously bETH is sat there ready to go. That will be, again, a perpetual refraction token. And then we’re also planning on doing LP refraction as well. So you can take Astroport LP tokens, and split them into yield and principal as well. And then after that, the next thing is the fixed maturities. And the main problem, as you just identified, is figuring out how to do liquidity in the right way for those.

Prosselenen 1:14:03
Right, that’s interesting. So just on the LP tokens, I mean, I hadn’t heard this before. That’s a really cool idea. And is there any plan to take this even one step further. So you imagine in the LP case, you might be getting transaction fees, or the pool itself might be incentivized. And you could imagine refracting the transaction fees into its certain token and any kind of rewards into a different token, for example, I guess you could do the same with LUNA as well, right. I don’t know. But are there any kind of plans on the horizon to refract p and y LUNA even more?

RyanLion 1:14:52
That’s a really good question. I’ve seen that actually come up a few times today. So could we split the yield token of LUNA into the airdrop yield and the staking yield, for example. I think the answer is, is probably not in the short term. But obviously, as we continue to build this thing out, and we continue to iterate, we’re certainly open to suggestions. Jimmy, I don’t know if you wanted to come in, I think you were going to come in with some comments on the fixed maturities as well.

lejimmy 1:15:27
Yeah, for the fixed maturities. The incentives for not only liquidity is tricky, but also the liquidity mechanism, right. Because for the y asset on these fixed term maturities, they’re 100% going to zero, right. So if you plug in those estimates in an impermanent loss calculator, and you’re providing liquidity for the yield token that is 100% going to zero, you’re getting rekt. So there’s a couple of innovations that need to happen from our side and on the Terra ecosystem. One namely being, perhaps it’s not a traditional AMM like you guys are used to. But it could be more like a liquidity bootstrapping pool, where if you’re familiar with some of the LBPs that have happened on Terra. So essentially, it starts off at a certain weight. And over time, as no one buys, the weight decreases more to more like favorable 50:50. But so for this special pool to work for our fixed maturities, it would have to start at 50:50. And also the weights would have to change as the yield token is expiring, such that you actually don’t totally get rekt at the very end. So that’s one way to solve the problem. And then the second way to solve the problem would be having these order books, where there’s a real person on the end of every trade and you’re not having this AMM facilitating these trades where you… So you won’t get wrecked with selling your fixed terms at anytime before it matures.

RyanLion 1:17:39
Anything on splitting in yAssets into more yAssets, Jimmy? I don’t think that’s something we’ve got…

lejimmy 1:17:45
Yeah, dude, there’s so much we can do, right. So I think our strategy should be, hey what are the largest market cap yield bearing tokens that we should tackle, to capture as much value and create as much utility as we can for all of these yield bearing assets, right. That’s number one. And then being able to split LP tokens from Astroport, from Loop, from I don’t know, all these DEXes that we have on Terra, even our own, right, even our own LP tokens, being able to split those up and give people the opportunity to speculate only on the swap fees and only on the yield bearing emissions part of an LP token, versus speculating on the underlying tokens itself inside the LP. I think that’ll be super interesting. And really high market cap, high value opportunities that we should probably tackle first before splitting our existing TVL into more derivatives.

Prosselenen 1:19:01
No, that makes sense. Thank you so much. And it sounds like a very interesting problem what you’re working on with the liquidity, and the ideas sound good. And I’m sure whatever you produce, if it’s like, what we saw today, will be amazing. So thank you. That’s all the questions I had.

RyanLion 1:19:17
Thanks for the kind words, thanks for the questions, man. Ryan, Ryan Melvey.

Ryan Melvey 1:19:26
Hey, guys, can you hear me?

RyanLion 1:19:27
Yeah, we got you, man.

Ryan Melvey 1:19:29
All right. Yeah. Thanks for the launch. Everything’s amazing so far. I had a couple questions about yLUNA, so 10% of the yield goes to the PRISM stakers. Is there also validator commissions on top of that, so potentially 20% lower yield, or is it different than that?

RyanLion 1:19:49
That’s a good question. So when we chose our validator set, and we’ve chosen seven validators, we set a max commission level of 5% for those validators. So it’s not like the Lido or the TDP validators which can go up to 10%, we’re kind of fixed it at a maximum of 5%. And then, yes, so your yield would be subject initially to that first 5% and then to 10% on the Prism Protocol. That was correct.

Ryan Melvey 1:20:32
Okay, that seems fair. And then I had one other question. So yLUNA autocompounders. is that something that the Prism team will work on? Or would that be something that the Spec team, or some external team would come up with? And then also wondering that as a potential collateral in Mars, or Edge, or even just making that something you could LP with so you’re just getting the compounded yLUNA?

RyanLion 1:21:03
Yeah, cool. So I guess, a couple of answers that question. One is, obviously if Spec wanted to start running our LPs through their protocol, I don’t believe we’ve got any block on that. But I guess the thing to bear in mind is we’re currently showing very, very high APRs on our liquidity pairs, that is purely through trading fees right now. And it’s also based on a 24 hour APR. So I would imagine as things start to settle down, those APRs will also come down a little bit, while it’s great to see the amount of trade volume that we’ve had today. We’ve also had some other questions around like, will any of the pools be incentivized. I think we’ll be keeping an eye on the amount of liquidity that we’ve managed to track so far, the size of the trades, and whether we need to incentivize any of our pools with PRISM token emissions. The other thing is that, obviously, we’re planning on having all our pairs against PRISM. So there’s a maximum of two swaps between any asset and might seem a bit strange right now but we’ve been talking about all these fixed maturities, we’ve been talking about all these other assets that we can bring into the protocol so you could potentially go, in the future, from, let’s say, ySOL to pETH, or any combination and swap with a maximum of two swaps across our DEX. That’s not to say that all the DEXes on Terra won’t build up all the pairs to utilizing our assets. So I’m sure people would be really interested to see maybe a cLUNA-LUNA pair somewhere, or a yLUNA-pLUNA pair somewhere. So I do expect those two to pop up somewhere. And then finally, in terms of an autocompounding yLUNA token, I know that’s definitely something that we have on our radar. I believe it’d be xyLUNA. I’ve heard Hyperion talk a few times about that. I’m not sure exactly where it is on the roadmap in terms of have we made any progress on that, or is it still in the idea stage. Jimmy, I don’t know if you want to come in, whether you’ve got any further detail on that specifically.

lejimmy 1:23:54
Yeah, I’ve seen some internal documentation on staked autocompounded assets that we have. So like Ryan just mentioned, xyLUNA, but as well as xyLP tokens. I think that’d be super interesting. But then I know we’ve got our work cut out for us trying to explain what all these letters mean. But yeah, I think those will be fun.

Ryan Melvey 1:24:28
Got it. Thank you.

RyanLion 1:24:30
Oh, no problem. Thanks for the question. And did we get Simone back up here?

Simone 1:24:36
Yes, it’s a question just out of curiosity. Prism refracted right now roughly 1 million of LUNA. So we know that there are, somewher, 1 million of yLUNA sitting around. I’m seeing that 264,000 are in stake and I see in the liquidity pool PRISM-yLUNA is roughly 1.7 million. So where are the other yLUNA right now? Are there any other usages for it? Or just sitting in wallet?

lejimmy 1:25:21
Yes so yLUNA use cases right now are either, one, sitting in wallets, two, staked in the yLUNA staking contract, or three, sitting in these liquidity pools. And they’re also maybe some people who have some cLUNA hanging around. So if you combine your pLUNA and yLUNA, you’re essentially going to be burning those tokens, creating cLUNA. So technically the way that you’d figure out how many tokens are floating out there is you can just look at how much cLUNA is inside one of these vaults, and then subtract it by the yLUNA that’s floating out there. And I think the only reason why you wouldn’t want to do that is so you can calculate how much cLUNA and yLUNA staking rewards are going back to xPRISM holders. And I kind of mentioned this earlier on the call, but we’ve probably had some turnover in the audience is that we have like over a million LUNA that’s refracted, but only a quarter of that is earning their normal staking rewards. Being staked and earning the normal staking rewards. And for yLUNA that’s staked in the normal staking contract, xPRISM holders are only getting 10% of those fees. But if the cLUNA and yLUNA is just floating around out there not snaked, if it’s inside the liquidity pools, or hanging around in people’s wallets, all those rewards are being converted back into PRISM and dropped back into the governance contract, right. So you can imagine in the past you’ve had these bLUNA pairs on TerraSwap, on Astroport, and normally you’re supposed to be able to collect the UST from the staking rewards but that UST is just floating in the ether and then no one is claiming them and not doing anything with it. So this kind of mechanism essentially solves that problem where we’re able to claim those rewards, but also essentially give it all back to folks holding xPRISM.

RyanLion 1:28:03
So I guess, public service announcement and sorry to xPRISM holders, if you are just sat on yLUNA, you’re not receiving any staking rewards for that yLUNA if it’s just sat in your wallet. You have to go to the Stake page, to the yLUNA staking, hit More Details and you can stake it there. It’s liquid staking so you can jump in and out of that pool as you wish, so if you’re sat on yLUNA and you’re maybe waiting for an arbitrage, you could if you wanted to, stake that in between, take it back out again. Although you may end up generating more fees than you accrue but it’s an option. There’s no staking period to jump in and out of that yLUNA staking contract. Sorry Jimmy, I know you’re bullish xPRISM.

lejimmy 1:29:07
[chuckle] Oh, I think we got a few hands raised but some of them put them down so I guess we’ll go with Mandivs. Hello ser.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:29:18
Hey, Jimmy, how are you?

lejimmy 1:29:20
I’m good, ser.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:29:21
Hey, quick question on the staking, so let’s say I unbonded my bLUNA, it’s now liquid LUNA sitting in my wallet. What is the best staking strategy you can recommend? Including… I don’t care about the airdrops but at least the staking rewards. Because I’m a little bit confused on what to use, why yLUNA is the one which going to be playing the major part here. I also undelegated my Stader LUNA also from LunaX liquid staking, thinking it might be covered somewhere through Prism. So now I’m kind of totally confused on where to put those LUNA back.

lejimmy 1:30:06
Yeah, I don’t think I can say too much around what you should do with your other staking derivatives. But just for our protocol, it’s meant to be able to refract your LUNA on the back end, we’ll be delegating that, and we’ll be issuing you, essentially, a collateral token. And if you use our front end, we’re just going to go ahead and skip that first step for you so you can deposit your LUNA, we’ll give you one pLUNA and then one yLUNA. And I think that if you’re just curious on playing around with how everything works, I definitely encourage you to use our testnet. And you can play around with a bunch of fake money and then get a feel for what’s going on.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:31:00
I get that testnet, I mean I played with it. But the thing is, I’m trying to look at the comparison chart per se, right. If I put my, let’s say, 100 LUNA in just straight out validators and get my staking rewards there, mayba it’s giving me 9.37%, just roughly, okay, approximate, not even exact. And then if I take the same thing with Stader, I might get something similar, or what if I use the same 100 LUNA, make it to cLUNA and then get pLUNA and yLUNA, all those rewards are making that 9% or 10%, or maybe more. That’s what I’m trying to figure out. Like where I can get maximize off my yield to LUNA, right. That’s my plan. So I cannot see that’s how much the rewards coming up in a month if I bond my LUNA through cLUNA and then get y and p LUNA.

lejimmy 1:31:58
Yeah, I think they’re all gonna be in terms of overall APRs, if you’re just looking at your entire LUNA token, we’re all going to give roughly the same. It’s just the mechanisms are a little bit different. And I think the benefit that we bring to the table that other liquid staking derivative protocols don’t is that we give you the flexibility to essentially trade and speculate on the components individually, right. So if you refract one LUNA with us and you have one pLUNA and you have one yLUNA, you stake that one yLUNA, you’re going to receive comparable returns versus the other LunaX, Stader, or say even holding naked bLUNA in your wallet. It’s gonna be comparable. We just give you additional functionality and utilities on top of that. Those other protocols don’t.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:33:03
Okay, I really might literally put maybe 100 LUNA native naked into PRISM and see how much. I mean it’s just for comparison purpose, three different ways, bLUNA one side, and then straight around another side. So three different strategies maybe I need to play with and find out where I can get maximum return over a month and then probably decide which strategy will be the best.

lejimmy 1:33:25
Yeah, there’s also staked LUNA as well, from Lido, right.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:33:31
Yeah, that’s another one.

lejimmy 1:33:35
Yeah, like we have a bunch, right. I think Ryan’s been promising us an alphabet thread for some time now.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:33:44
Thanks for nominating you.

RyanLion 1:33:48
Yeah, I guess the only other thing to add is that with our platform, and this is certainly not advice, but some people will choose, in the example of yourself where you’re saying, “Right, I’ve got 100 LUNA and I want to get maximum staking rewards,” one of the things that you could do is you could swap the pLUNA over for yLUNA and I think… Where are we? We’re probably about 50:50 at this point, I think yLUNA is a little bit more than pLUNA. So you essentially kind of leverage up your staking rewards. Obviously the risk of doing that is that if the ratio moves against you, you may not be able to recompose back into 100 LUNA. So there’s risk there, but essentially, you could potentially take 100 LUNA lever up to… Swap the pLUNA to the yLUNA, get almost the power of 200 LUNA worth of staking rewards. But yeah, but then you’re carrying the risk that you might not be able to swap back and bring your 100 LUNA back to the whole amount, if that makes sense.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:35:04
Yeah, I read some thread also, that ratio also can be volatile. You can get 60:40 or 70:30. Is that true?

RyanLion 1:35:13
Yeah, it’s completely up to the market between how the p and y LUNA assets trade against each other as a percentage of LUNA overall.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:35:21
So how you can get notified if there is a variation up to more than a certain percentage between the two?

RyanLion 1:35:27
Good question. So, I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Arbie, the bot, that’s become very popular.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:35:36
I just RTed Arbie. But that is not coming from your application. That’s what I was asking in the morning, to have a pair where you can actually use these arb on Kujira or using White Whale, they can get… Okay, maybe I set up a baseline and if I get something more than that, then I will immediately dive in, right.

RyanLion 1:36:01
Yeah. So the guy at Arbie, we’ve been working with him. And he’s gonna… He’s already added a couple of PRISM arbs and he’s going to be adding some more around p and y LUNA as he can figure them out.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:36:17
That will be great. That would be fantastic. Maybe we can introduce him to other ecosystem of Terra and have some… Just for that.

RyanLion 1:36:26
Yeah I mean, big shout out to that guy. He’s a easy UK LUNAtic who have built Arbie and I think he’s done an amazing job of building that thing out. We had…

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:36:36
Hire him.

RyanLion 1:36:39
I don’t know if you’ve seen… Well, I think…

lejimmy 1:36:42
While we’re speaking of which, I just got an alert from Arbie, there’s a 7% premium cLUNA to LUNA right now.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:36:48
Oh, my God again. Last I say was 5.66, now it’s 7? See that’s what we are missing. How we’re gonna use…

RyanLion 1:36:55
What, c to native LUNA? It’s back. It’s been arbed

lejimmy 1:37:02
Yes, God, oh my God it’s so fast. I guess someone just… I don’t know, what did they do? Must be a huge trade on cLUNA recently.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:37:15
See, we need to beat these bulls, right. How are we going to make it in front of them? You cannot frontrun them. So how the user can get benefit out of this? Because every time something like this happens bots are gonna eat you up right away.

RyanLion 1:37:27
I heard Jimmy going around promising people that he was going to help build a bot so that you would release into the wild. But I haven’t seen any evidence of that yet, Jimmy. I don’t know if you’re just keeping it to yourself.

lejimmy 1:37:39
Yeah, absolutely. Just keeping to… No, I’ve just been super busy. And then some of the guys over… Well, I think Arbie’s probably your best bet on being able to get notified really quickly on if there’s an arb coming on. I think the guys over at Coinhall also have an alert system so that could be a fallback. But yeah, I think it’s tough early on, right, to try to…

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:38:12
Is it through Twitter only or there is a Telegram bot also available, do you know?

lejimmy 1:38:17
For Coinhall or for Arbie.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:38:19
No, for RB.

lejimmy 1:38:20
For RB I think it’s only on Telegram. So you’ve got to have Telegram.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:38:24
Okay, I’ll try that. I’ll search him up. Thank you.

RyanLion 1:38:29
No worries. Good chat as always, Mandivs. Anyone else with any questions? I don’t think we’ve got anyone lined up right now.

lejimmy 1:38:39
Yeah, maybe it’s a good time to call a break as well. I’ve been neglecting the missus so I need to call her back.

RyanLion 1:38:47
Oh, Gods, Jimmy. It’s Valentine’s Day. We’ve been spending way too much time together.

Mandivs de’ Medici 1:38:55
Enjoy. Happy Valentine’s Day to you all. Have a good evening. I’m gonna drop off here. Thanks.

lejimmy 1:39:01
I guess, Ryan, you want to close this up and tell us where people should go.

RyanLion 1:39:08
Oh, gosh. It’s getting late here, Jimmy, my brain’s starting to switch off. Yeah, thanks, everyone for joining. Hope you’ve all enjoyed using the platform today. I know we’ve had an absolute blast. I’m really pleased that is out there. You guys have been able to use it and see the power and the potential of the platform. Thanks everyone for the support. Telegram and Discord are always open for questions. So if you do have any questions, feel free to jump in there. And if you go to the Prism Protocol Twitter account, in the header there there’s a link to our Notion which Hyperion spent a lot of time curating, which has got a whole range of videos, podcasts, white paper, articles, and community threads around Prism, how it works, and a lot of discussion as well about where people think that the p and y LUNA token should trade against each other over the last six months. So, thanks everyone for the support. We’ll probably try and keep jumping on these Spaces every couple of days maybe as we’re building up, just to take any questions that you guys have got. But we’ll catch you soon. Cheers, Jimmy.

lejimmy 1:40:34
Cheers, Ryan. See you guys.

Finn 1:40:35
Thanks for checking out another episode of The Ether. That was the Prism Protocol AMA hosted by RyanLion and the Prism team. Recorded on Monday, February 14th 2022. This episode of The Ether was brought to you by Talis. Talis Protocol is the NFT platform for independent artists on Terra. Talis helps to provide artists with the tools and resources needed to transition from traditional arts into the NFT world. With their V1 launch coming soon, Talis will be the place to see real world art reflected on Terra. Be sure to join their Telegram and follow Talis on Twitter for updates on their roadmap, validator, and other Talis news. Find your next favorite artist on This episode of The Ether was also brought to you by Luart. Luart is the first gamified NFT platform built on the Terra network. Luart provides a seamless minting and trading experience all while earning you rewards just for being a user. Be sure to follow them on Twitter and join the community in the Discord server for the most up to date news and announcements regarding all the hot new NFT launches, platform upgrades, and new projects hitting the secondary marketplace. Are you ready to #PutYourHelmetOn and join the movement? Find out more TerraSpaces appreciates the support from our sponsors. For, I’m Finn. Thanks for listening.