Transcript: Mars X Apollo DAO AMA

Mars Protocol
Mars Protocol

Finn 0:42
Hello and welcome to The Ether. Today is Thursday, March 10th 2022. This episode of The Ether is brought to you by Orbital Command, a community validator on Terra dedicated to educating, expanding, and promoting the LUNAtic community. Follow Orbital Command on Twitter using the link in the show notes to receive regular threads on Terra protocols and yield strategies, news, resources, and Twitter Space discussions. You can also support their community efforts by considering them next time you’re delegating or redelegating your LUNA. Find out more at This episode of The Ether is also brought to you by Luart. Luart is the first gamified NFT platform built on the Terra network. Luart provides a seamless minting and trading experience all while earning you rewards just for being a user. Be sure to follow them on Twitter and join the community in the Discord server for the most up to date news and announcements regarding all the hot new NFT launches, platform upgrades, and new projects hitting the secondary marketplace. Are you ready to #PutYourHelmetOn and join the movement? Find out more at TerraSpaces appreciates the support from all our sponsors. Today on The Ether, the Mars and Apollo DAO AMA. Let’s take a listen.

Midas 1:54
Hello, hello.

₿RUCΞ 1:54
Good morning. How you doing sir?

Midas 1:56
Hey, Bruce. Welcome, sir. How you doing?

₿RUCΞ 1:59
I am very well, very well. Thank you. And thanks so much for having us on.

Midas 2:03
Oh, it’s a pleasure. Do you know if there’s anybody else from the Apollo DAO team that is gonna come here upstage?

₿RUCΞ 2:11
I believe Anon might. But I think we can always begin and he will join, if possible. Might be a little bit early for him.

Midas 2:21
Amazing. All right. All right. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, fellow LUNAtics. It’s my pleasure to have with us the chad from Apollo DAO, Bruce, who is here with us to talk a little bit about… First, a story about Apollo, brief story about Apollo, and then talking about what’s going to happen with Apollo DAO and what they’re going to be building on Mars, on top of the Mars protocol. And also, it’s going to be very interesting to know what does the future look like for Apollo DAO. Anon, is that you?

Apollo DAO 3:04
Yo, what’s going on guys?

Midas 3:07
Hey, sir. Welcome, welcome. Man, this is just like family time. So let me just relax here a little bit. I have my cup of coffee. Yeah, huge cup of coffee, not a little one. Sorry, Mr. Do Kwon. I have to learn from you. [chuckle] But anyways, just breaking the ice here guys a little bit, waiting for others to just hop into the Mars and Apollo DAO AMA. Give me one second so I can also share it here on my Twitter account. Man, I’m getting nervous. I don’t know why I’m getting nervous. Yeah, I’m getting like a boomer here, you know, with technology and this shit. [chuckle] Like what does this button do? Okay, hey, Jose.

José Maria Macedo 4:04
Hey, how’s it going?

Midas 4:04
Hey, sir. All right. So l think we’re ready. Let’s start here with the first question that I have for you guys. So briefly, for those that don’t know what is Apollo DAO, if you don’t know who they are just click on their Twitter account and start seeing what these guys… Because they are genius. But guys, can you tell me in your own words, what do you do? Who are you, what do you do.

₿RUCΞ 4:31
Yeah, so I think overall with Apollo DAO, we do a number of different things but a lot of the long term vision is really around creating this decentralized hedge fund on, initially Terra, but also looking at other chain opportunities as well. So I think when we started we really saw a lot of potential in the growth of the LUNA and Terra ecosystem, and we’re big fans of the algorithmic stablecoin and having a decentralized access to a stablecoin and something that’s really pretty unique to Terra and to UST. So I think that’s what really initially attracted us. And then seeing all this growth in terms of projects that are coming to Terra and all the new things that can be enabled on Terra that potentially aren’t available elsewhere. So we were looking to get as involved in this and benefit or allow Apollo to benefit from the whole growth of the ecosystem. So it really started back in the Delphi hackathon back in May last year. So been a little while now. And so our initial product has really been our autocompounding vaults, that basically autocompound yield from LP rewards. And then we take a performance fee from that and in return provide some APOLLO tokens to our users.

₿RUCΞ 5:56
And this is really our bootstrapping for our warchest, which we then use to farm different protocols on Terra, ranging from Astroport, we’ve got involved in the Mars Lockdrop as well, we’re also farming PRISM tokens as well. So kind of do a range of different things but looking to keep expanding the products we offer, our integration into this Terra ecosystem. I’m really looking to, one, benefit from the growth of Terra ecosystem, but also help it to grow as well. And so we created stuff like Apollo Safe, which is a multisig on Terra as well, and really looking at what tools do we need to build Apollo DAO and to make it operating to increase the decentralization and then also looking to make these products available to users on the wider ecosystem and to other projects as well.

Midas 6:47
Right, this is super interesting, because people usually think that Apollo is just a yield autocompounder. But from what I understand what you said, I will say that Apollo is a bet on Terra ecosystem first, and on secondary other ecosystems later, but you guys are really working on building stuff on top of Terra, this Apollo Safe, I know that you’re creating some strategies, and that you’re going to also be building… You’re going to build on Mars. So how do you envision for example of building on Mars? What are you guys going to be doing with Mars Protocol?

₿RUCΞ 7:31
Yes, so really excited for the launch of Mars. And I think it’s going to be one of the real cornerstones of Terra. And we’ve kind of seen how popular and how useful these money market lending protocols are in general. And I think also Mars brings a lot of new features to that, especially around the leveraged yield farming, the Fields of Mars. So yes, one, really excited for it to launch and I think it’s going to be great for Terra, it’s going to be great for having new yield sources that we can make the most of and I think you really start to see the completion of the yield circle, the more people that are borrowing and lending and the more opportunities there are to borrow and lend, the more yield opportunities there are, which then makes it even better to borrow and lend as well. So to start with, we’re going to be building on top of Fields of Mars and offer leveraged yield farming. So initially starting with the UST pairs, so similar to what’s currently available on Fields of Mars. But then also looking to expand that beyond to, for example, the LUNA pairs, so stuff like stLUNA-LUNA, which I think it’s gonna be really interesting because it’s going to drive up the amount of demand to borrow from Mars, both of UST and LUNA, which is then going to make it more exciting and better opportunities to deposit on Mars, and you really have that full circle. And so that’s gonna be the initial stuff, but I think it also opens up a lot more opportunities in the future.

₿RUCΞ 9:12
So when more assets are listed on on Mars as well it potentially opens up some ways to hedge your yield but still get yield from farming. So we’ll also be looking to release those products as part of our vault, but also it’s likely to create some more opportunities that we can deploy the warchest into as well, and earn our own farming rewards. And yeah, so for example, if Pylon was listed as one of the assets on Mars, you could then potentially supply your UST, borrow MINE and get the farming rewards that way. So I think not only are there a lot of exciting opportunities from the current implementation of Fields of Mars, but a lot more coming in the future as well. And I think this is all going to just work to generate more returns for MARS stakers, so we’re going to get our… The MARS that we got from our Lockdrop, we’re gonna get staked xMARS and be part of both the governance and also just bring in another revenue stream for Apollo DAO through xMARS as well. And I think all these things are pretty interesting because this revenue source is going to be… It’s less affected by different market conditions, there’s always going to be income coming in from people borrowing and people lending and, the fact there’s already 200 million UST available to be borrowed, I think the more opportunities there are available the more it can be borrowed, and it can be borrowed at an extremely cheap rate at the moment. So yeah, really excited and great to see how much was released straightaway at launc, everything from the xMARS to the Fields of Mars, which has come out. So yeah, lots to happen in the short term, but also the long term potential is amazing as well.

Midas 11:00
So yeah, let’s talk a little bit about, for example, beyond integrating with Mars, what else are you focused on? What other projects are coming from Apollo DAO?

₿RUCΞ 11:13
Yeah, so a range of different things. And I think it also fits back into this as well. So the next big thing for us will be the release of our veAPOLLO, which will enable governance on Apollo. So, yeah, I think that’s going to add a lot of exciting things. So not only will it allow our users to be able to get returns on their APOLLO tokens, but I think opening up the governance is just going to have a huge difference in the amount of different opportunities, we can look at the different ways we can deploy the warchest, we can also start looking at doing stuff like a token swap with other projects, so I think that’s going to open up a lot of doors. And then the next thing after that that we’ve been working on is our Convex implementation regarding Astroport. So really, the idea behind this is that instead of users having to lock up their ASTRO tokens for yield, they’ll be able to provide them to Apollo DAO, they’ll be able to get the yield from those that we will basically max lock the ASTRO tokens for them, they will be able to get the yield from those, but not the governance power and the boost, and the boost will instead be used to boost our Apollo vaults as well, which I think then adds into the leveraged yield farming as well, where we can have the combination of… You’ll have APOLLO rewards, you’ll get boosted rewards from Astroport, and then also be able to link that in with the leveraged yield farming as well. So I think we’re really starting to get to the stage where lots of different protocols on Terra are going to be able to start working together and just add a lot more composability to the whole ecosystem.

₿RUCΞ 12:56
And then I guess the other thing around this is we’re also looking to introduce vault tokens. So a bit like an LP token, it’d be an autocompounding vault token, so you’d put your LPs into the vault, you’d get this vault token, which can be constantly generating yield. But you can then also use that or potentially use that as collateral in other platforms as well, which I think it’s going to increase the composability of Apollo products with also other platforms as well. So yeah, I think we’re gonna… I think we’ve really seen this Ethereum DeFi how much value these kind of composability can add. And it’s one of the real advantages that in my opinion that DeFi has over traditional finance. Obviously, only one advantage, but I think it’s quite a major one. So really excited to seeing this coming to Terra as well. And yeah, I think we’ll just keep also looking at improving our current products. So I think we never sit on our laurels and think we’re all finished, it’s always more stuff we can do, more stuff we can improve. So yeah, a range of different things. I don’t know if Anon wants to add anything that I’ve missed there as well.

Apollo DAO 14:11
No, I think that you hit it pretty well. And at Apollo, I guess, you could think of it as, I guess, a suite of DeFi tools. Obviously, the autocompounder is our first tool that we built, but similar to how some other protocols and stuff is you kind of use these tools as a way to bootstrap. So as he was saying, we’re kind of using these different DeFi tools as a service in order to bootstrap liquidity. Because normally to bootstrap some sort of fund or something like this, you need either outside LPs, in a traditional model, or… Obviously, this is more of a DeFi model where our users are using our product, a percent of those fees are going back into this warchest, then that’s being deployed, and the initial goal of that warchest is to deploy it, in places that can help to, obviously, one, create revenue and, two, improve the Apollo product. So obviously, in DeFi the most important thing usually comes down to liquidity. So, that’s why Astroport was one of the bigger things we were looking at. And then obviously, with Mars you’re looking at that credit line, which obviously, lending is huge as well in DeFi. So that’s kind of where those two applications actually… They increase the ability and the use case for Apollo. So we’re using these vault fees to make investments, but the investments also increased the usability of Apollo itself. So it’s kind of a way to create composability, and just a little bit easier.

Apollo DAO 16:08
So that’s kind of a good way to think of it is, it’s a completely user bootstrapped DeFi fund that uses its own funds to basically create a better product for those users. So that’s where also Safe came in, where we’re building completely, I guess, on-chain equivalent of a business, I guess, you could say. So, at a traditional business you need tools, and you have to manage all of your assets, and you have to do all this stuff. And on-chain, a lot of that infrastructure isn’t necessarily fully built out. Even on Ethereum we’re still in the super early days of really seeing how these smart contracts can be built, and what kind of tools can be used, and, I guess, coordination tools and management tools of, like I said, assets, or even multisigs. And I’m really interested in the composability too of just CosmWasm itself. I’m not actually a dev, necessarily, but I really like the whole IBC, and how… I could definitely see where we can potentially launch products across IBC. And that will give you a way to say… If you had, say Secret Network, and you’re on Terra, and you want to send UST from Terra to Secret Network, as an organization, there needs to be some sort of infrastructure built to be able to have multisigner on both of these platforms, so that these funds and DeFi protocols and stuff, that way they can actually use all of these applications and stuff in a safer way. So, it really ranges all the way from, I guess, degen yield farming type of stuff all the way to DAO tooling, and then just other public good infrastructure we’re also interested in building out. So anything that’s a blocker for us, or especially with me, anything that I’m doing that’s manual, I’m like, “This should be automated,” because no one has time to sit around and manually do all this stuff. So that’s where automation is so key.

Apollo DAO 16:34
So yeah, I’m sorry to rant a little bit, just like, I guess, a little background on how some of these products were developed was based on things we were doing manually or big blockers for us that obviously other people would hit too. So how can we scale up development for the entire… All of Terra and other protocols also are doing the same thing where they’re building stuff that other people can use too. So I definitely think that the Terra development community is really great. All my experiences with other protocols and stuff have all been pretty awesome. So it’s definitely been a fun year building on Terra.

Midas 19:08
Oh, yeah, it has been. I like to always remind people that just one year ago I think we didn’t even have Anchor Protocol. I’m sure it launched right around this dates but…

Apollo DAO 19:24
Yeah, about a year I think.

Midas 19:26
Yeah, but we only had Mirror Protocol. And it was like, no one… Yeah, nobody was building a lot.

Apollo DAO 19:34
People forget that even UST itself, I guess, is really not that old when you look into it, because the original… I guess the original model on Terra was the SDT stablecoin, which is more of like a basket of stables. Yeah, and then it wasn’t really until UST had come out where I’d really… A month or two, whatever, after that I’d really started to see the power of LUNA and UST, and once they launched the USD denominated stablecoin, and then Mirror, and then Anchor, it was just… You can really just see it. I was like, “Oh, wow, this is about to be huge, I think.” Fast forward, here we are. [chuckle]

Midas 20:21
Hey, and have some questions here because it seems… Oh, José you wanna say something?

Midas 20:27
Yeah, I had a question if that’s cool for Apollo. What do you guys see as the right way to think about what you’re doing? Because it seems like you have a lot of parts to the project, you’ve got your autocompounding vaults, which I guess are similar to a Yearn-type product on Ethereum, and you’re gonna offer leverage on that, which is similar to, I guess, like an Alpha-style product. But then you also have your warchest, which is kind of like investing into a fund, right, or into an Olympus, or somewhere where you’re getting this diversified exposure to Terra assets, and kind of also trusting your management abilities on that. So how do you see yourselves and what you’re doing? How should people try and understand what you’re doing? And also you have the Convex side, actually, which you’re building out, right. Where you’re going to be locking ASTRO and trying to enter the ASTRO wars. So yeah, I’m just curious, how do you guys see yourselves or like, the highest level?

Apollo DAO 21:23
I mean, I definitely think a lot of it comes from just… At least in my case, I’ve been a power user on DeFi and Ethereum, and I got into it around 2016, 2017. And I have no real background in finance, and trading, or anything like that. So I just got really, really into it. And I just studied all these different protocols, and I use all the different protocols. So I was just kind of building stuff that… Obviously, it’s not just one or two people, but each one of us have things that we’re really into. So we just basically put together all of our brains and started building just stuff that we… I guess, stuff that we wanted to see. And that’s where, I guess, the concept of our core products really being, I guess, the DAO. It’s kind of like, that’s the most interesting part to build out, I think. It’s because we’re basically… I consider it more of a completely… Try to be a completely on-chain business model of… On Ethereum, we see a lot of individual, I guess, products, that I consider to be, I guess, more features. And then you’ll see that on Ethereum, there’s so much fragmentation of liquidity, and there’s so many products that probably should have just been features on other products. So it was kind of the goal was to build more of like a, I guess, fully fledged DeFi suite of applications. So it’s kind of like… Yeah, I guess… I definitely consider us just kind of like some DeFi users that wanted to just see what we could do and what we could build and took bits and pieces from all different things that we’d use and studied and combine them all more to like, be a little bit more, I guess, fluid together. But I don’t know if Bruce might have some other comments, too.

₿RUCΞ 23:23
Yeah, no, I think you’ve put that really well. And I think, yes, there’s multiple different parts and there’s multiple parts we’ve been working on in conjunction at the same time, but the idea is that in the long term, they will all come together and benefit each other. So for example, the warchest. So the original inception around this was really kind of wrestling with the question of how… With a lot of autocompounders or farming tokens and stuff like this, you see large amounts of inflation, so how can you balance that inflation with constant value accrual. But I think then that really came around to once we start accumulating other tokens, so I think ASTRO is probably the best example here, we can then utilize that to actually improve the product of the vaults as well. And say with Apollo Safe, it’s kind of something we’ve released, it’s a bit different from our other products, but it’s going to fit into how we do the governance side of stuff as well. So it’s really multiple different things, but they’re all going to start coming together more and more, and be more and more integrated into each other and give benefits to each different part.

Apollo DAO 24:39
Yeah, and I think with the warchest, I usually consider it… The way I explain is instead of like an ETF, it’s a DTF. So it’s kind of a stupid joke, but yeah, it’s like a DEX Traded Fund, is kind of a way to think of the warchest. And then the Apollo Safe is what we use to manage the assets and manage the governance of that warchest. And then the warchest is bootstrapped through our different vault offerings and product offerings. It’s kind of how they all flow together. And then the warchest is… That’s kind of, I guess, a degen trading fund. But yeah, most of it is pretty… I guess, considered low risk, I believe so far. So I think governance, we might be able to ramp up a little bit of the risk parameters on the warchest, once we have more input outside of the team. But the team is 11 people, so there still is a pretty big council to get through to get anything done.

José Maria Macedo 25:43
Nice, so are you… Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Apollo DAO 25:47
No, no, go ahead. All good.

José Maria Macedo 25:50
Is the plan for the warchest to eventually governance votes on what to do with it? Or is it always going to be the council, and will that be elected by governance kind of thing?

Apollo DAO 26:02
Oh, yeah, it’ll be open. Our plan is to open the governance. And then I’m kind of picturing a model of like a joint governance venture between the Apollo team and Apollo community. We can kind of bring it together and I think that if we can work together on really refining proposals before they get to voting, stuff like that, and then I definitely see where community members can obviously present stuff like this, but at some point, you don’t want to have a bunch of ridiculous, or malicious proposals coming through, especially when… I definitely think the warchest has to be somewhat careful as well, because of a lot of other protocols are held by it. So you have to be a little bit more careful about letting someone come in, and say, “Oh, we’re gonna dump all of our APOLLO tokens that we have in the warchest, because we feel like it.” So that’s kind of the things that I’m just being careful. So I do think that the governance will be obviously completely open. But as far as proposals, I think that the team should definitely work on working with the community members to refine these proposals and kind of work out what’s technically possible, because you don’t want people proposing things that is six months of deb work that should be spent somewhere else, and stuff like that. So it’s definitely gonna be interesting, but we are planning to open up the warchest to the APOLLO token holders.

₿RUCΞ 27:43
Yeah, I think it’d be kind of continuously getting more decentralized as well. So open up to full voting from the community, but like Anon said, just making sure that all the proposals have all the information, that they’re actually technically possible. And that there’s no malicious proposals created as well. And I think this was also why we were very keen on the Curve type tokenomics, as well. Really, because we want the people with the most voting power to not be making short term decisions and really focus on the long term profitability of the warchest. And I think there’s also… The more that’s aligned the more that we can open up and decentralize the governance as well, because you can be confident that people are going to be aligned on that long term decision making as well.

José Maria Macedo 28:38
Makes sense. So how do you stop… Because with decentralized asset management, there’s always the issue of, if there’s a governance proposal that passes to buy some ASTRO, or whatever, everyone’s just going to try and frontrun you, right. So to some extent, it probably needs to be done by a multisig, although, obviously multisigs have their own issues, as we saw with our boy Sifu frontrunning TIME for like a year. So yeah, have you guys thought much about that?

Apollo DAO 29:04
That’s why I’ve been a big model of this DCA-ing, as opposed to… Like you said, as we saw, obviously on Ethereum, we saw the Rook proposal that got frongrun by a couple Ethereum whales who were like, “Oh, you put up this whole forum publicly that you’re gonna do this? Alright I’m just gonna throw X amount in.” So that’s where I’m a bit hesitant of those big public buys, I guess. So with the warchest, we’re looking to more accumulate as a dollar cost average over time, with a percent of our vault fees. So currently how it works for the ASTRO accumulation is that 25% of the vault fees go into buying ASTRO, there’s about 2-3 compounds a day give or take, 40 strategies. So then you’re looking at, whatever, 40 times 480, like 80-160 smaller micro buys on ASTRO. So we’ve definitely found that to be kind of pretty good. But yeah, I definitely think the frontrunning issue is why we were a little bit more nimble at first to get a lot of these assets through like Lockdrop, and these DCA-ing early on, especially ASTRO, which I saw a big gap in the price and the value. So that was where it was like, “Okay, let’s turn on this dollar cost average,” get a nice solid steady buy pressure instead of these huge apes that you’ll see a lot of other protocols are doing.” So I’m hoping that we won’t be doing any huge apes and getting frontrun. But yeah, I definitely think that that’s… Something that I’ve been trying to think of how… Once we go fully decentralized asset management, how to avoid the frontrunning, and hopefully we have enough of the assets in the vault fees to be able to just steadily buy it over time, as opposed to these big ridiculous buys that we’ll see sometimes in DeFi.

José Maria Macedo 31:22
Makes a lot of sense.

Midas 31:24
And speaking about the DCA, I just want to comment on that. There is right now an Astro bounty, Astroport bounty for building a DCA on top of it. So if you guys are up to the task, that will be super interesting to have as well.

Apollo DAO 31:42
Like an automatic DCA bot built on top of of Astroport?

Midas 31:49

Apollo DAO 31:51
Yeah, that would be… So then you would just be able to set the parameters of what you want to do, or it would just buy something for you every day?

Midas 31:59
I mean, I will have to check exactly the bounty what is it, but yeah, there’s a bounty that just came up right now about creating some DCA strategies and for Astroport. So if you guys want to hop on that as well, it will be super interesting, and I think aligned with your vision, right. And I also have another comment here because, well, from what Bruce said, it seems that like the plan is to build a Convex on top of Astroport and use those boosties with the leveraged yield strategies, using Mars at the same time. So am I right here, or am I just hallucinating? Thanks.

₿RUCΞ 32:41
That’s definitely the plan. Obviously, we’d have to see all the pieces fall into place first, but yes, we’re definitely working on the Convex side and looking to accumulate ASTRO for those boosties. And yeah, I see that fitting in very well with the leverage that the DAO to DAO, contract to contract leverage as well. So, yeah, I think we’ll see all those pieces fall into place ideally.

Midas 33:10
Damn, awesome. Alright…

José Maria Macedo 33:12
How do you…

Midas 33:13
Go, José.

José Maria Macedo 33:13
Sorry, go ahead. Sorry, Midas, I may just keep rugging you. Feel free to go ahead.

Midas 33:20
You go, go ahead.

José Maria Macedo 33:22
Yeah, just one quick one for me, with the Convexes, it might be a bit of an alpha leak, but there are a few… Obviously Retrograde did the Anchor proposal, and a few others spinning up trying to build this Convex piece on Terra. Seems like it’s gonna be a big race to accumulate assets, whether it’s ANC, if ANC ends up going to veANC way, or ASTRO, which is definitely going the vxASTRO way. How do you think about winning there? Because obviously there was only one Convex on Ethereum. And that was largely because of the Curve whitelist which meant that they monopolize that for ages, on Terra it seems like it might be more of a battle. How do you think about winning that? Is it just an incentive war and deploying the right incentives to do that? Or are there other ways to do that?

₿RUCΞ 34:10
Yeah. So I think it’s gonna be a range of different things. So I think what we really saw from Convex was the reason they were so good and so popular was the fact that they managed to maintain the peg of their CVX Curve a lot better than other protocols. But I think also the way that we really see it is that there’s not going to be… It’s almost better if there’s not one winner. And so if there’s multiple protocols, we call it “biting”, that the the Astro Wars is going to be better for us in the long term anyway, because we’ve got these Astro holdings already, the more people and the more projects that can offer a slightly different spin on it, they may appeal to slightly different users. And I think it’s always better if it’s not a one protocol takes everything, if there’s enough room on Terra for multiple protocols and multiple different ways of doing things, and then utilizing those holdings in slightly different ways. So, yeah, I think it’s better to be a war rather than a one DAO trying to suck up all of it.

Apollo DAO 35:22
Yeah, I definitely think that having multiple protocols using this somewhat of a model is actually beneficial to, number one, Astroport itself, because I guess, there is even… We just saw the Convex thing with the unlock, they can’t get the contracts unlocked, all of the locked up tokens. And that’s kind of a systemic risk, I guess, even just having one protocol own that much of the tokens is one thing that I see. And then two is you do need that competition, because I think that the competition, number one, will pump my bags, just to be honest, at the same time, but in reality you definitely need that competition to create that value, and I guess fight over those tokens, which just only helps out… And I know, I think there’s some redacted type stuff where there’ll be bribes and all this stuff. So I think that if it’s just you’re the only one getting all the bribes, it’s not that competitive. So I think that having multiple people in to the bribes… Personally, I’m not the biggest fan of the veANC. I mean, I think it makes sense and it’s not… I just think that that protocol should be kept as simple as possible. And the whole ve model is definitely a little bit more complicated. And I’d say, on top of that, it’s a simple protocol. So to complicate it I feel like hurts the core of Anchor and the ve tokens work really well around liquidity. I don’t know how it would play out around collateral factors.

Apollo DAO 37:16
So we haven’t been as interested in the veANC War. But I’m sure that some other token… I think a lot of other tokens will have this ve model. So they’ll actually be more ve tokens on Terra, then there probably is on Ethereum, so I think different protocols can even focus on different ve tokens they want to accumulate. Some protocols might even want to take the proxy approach and purchase veAPOLLO as a way to gain revenue and access to the holdings that we have. So I think that it’s going to be pretty interesting, where we might even see somebody, basically, I guess, Convex Apollo, because they want to have access to a bunch of that revenue stream. So I think that, yeah, the more the better. And I think that even just that narrative alone brings some excitement to Terra DeFi. It’s something that people on Ethereum are very familiar with already as well. So it’s kind of like, it just brings more liquidity, which is just better for everybody, I think.

₿RUCΞ 38:23
Yeah, I completely agree. And I think the other interesting thing is, there’s almost multiple ways you could do this, or look at it, or do it from a DAO perspective. So for us, it’s really going to be around boosting our own vaults and try and get as much ASTRO to do that. But then you could also have something, like Anon mentioned with the bribes, you could have a protocol that doesn’t even have their own vaults, but they purely accumulate ASTRO, so then they can lend it out, or have it bribed out to other protocols that do want to boost their vaults. So I think even… Yeah, I think there are lots of different applications. And quite often we see that the more that’s created on protocols, and more that’s created the more opportunities there are, rather than the less opportunities there are. So yeah, I’m excited to see and I’m sure they’ll be some new implementations we’ve not even thought of yet.

Apollo DAO 39:16
Yeah, and there’s also… I guess, if we’re going to talk in terms of how to win this, I guess, just hypothetical, more game theory is that number one, obviously, we have… So that’s one advantage that we have. And then we also participated in phase two of the Lockdrop, so we have our APOLLO-UST earning ASTRO tokens. And then we also have an ASTRO-UST LP that’s being compounded in Apollo. So we do have multiple different sources of ASTRO tokens that a lot of them are kind of lossless, or farming rewards, or we’re also buying it through the vault. So we have multiple ways of accumulation that don’t need one big ape. And that’s another thing that I noticed too is with the ve model, you see a lot of these protocols come up where their whole entire product is to just hold other products’ tokens, which I think is a really interesting concept and there’s definitely a place for that. But in our model, like I said, it’s a little bit more about enhancing our vault is the main point of it. So we’re enhancing our own product. So we actually kind of have, I guess, a bigger use case for these ASTRO tokens. And we’re going to continue to accumulate them through these methods. And then obviously, with something like the Convex model, that’s where you could see the ASTRO tokens really start to be accumulated through all of those together. So I think we have… Our goal wasn’t to come out and copy Convex, or copy any of this stuff, it just happened to be that the way to make the Apollo vaults better was to acquire some of these ASTRO tokens. And then also since… Similar to Yearn and Curve, we’re compounding Astroport vaults.

Apollo DAO 41:21
So I did like… The model was to… You don’t want to dump all of the exchange rewards, because those exchange rewards, one, are going to be highly valuable, two, you’re running so much volume and stuff through the vaults that you kind of want to have a little bit of say in the liquidity, because say you’re… For the APOLLO-UST pool, for example, is around anywhere from 7-10 million dependent on prices. And say something like Mars has a minimum requirement of around, whatever, 20 million in the pool. This is where you could… If, say, you’re an Apollo user and you want to leveraged yield farm APOLLO tokens, and there’s not enough liquidity there, this is where the Astroport tokens could be used basically to boost the rewards on certain pools. And then maybe that could help for them to qualify as a leveraged yield farming strategy, if you can bring enough liquidity into the pair. So I definitely see a lot of different interesting opportunities that you can do with this, outside of just, I guess, the whole bribing and making money off bribes wasn’t really our full intention, but it might happen just because we have a good amount of it.

Apollo DAO 42:37
But yeah, the model was more built around the Yearn Curve backscratcher vault. And then studied a lot of the Convex model, saw what they did different from Yearn and Curve, and they had the liquidity mining rewards, and they kept the peg a lot closer. So if you were trying to exit the Yearn derivative, at some times there was anywhere from a 15%-17% deviance, I haven’t really checked that much often so I don’t really know what it is. And then over on Convex, it was 1%-2% and you could swap your locked stuff for liquid. So obviously, something as simple as just having a closer peg between the derivative and the token, they were able to basically totally dominate that war. So if you can, I guess, take a mix of what Yearn did and kind of what Comdex did, and then morph it into a slightly different model where you’re not just dumping all the rewards from the exchange, you’re keeping a portion of it, and then you’re actively using it as well. So it’s kind of, I guess, like a more symbiotic method because when I first looked into yield farmers and stuff, I had a big, I guess, issue with the liquidity mining rewards structures and how the Yearn and Curve vaults were operating didn’t seem long term sustainable. So I think that this model was kind of built around trying to, I guess, build on top of that type of an idea. So that’s kind of where the ASTRO token strategy was originated, was from that Yearn Curve backscratcher vault. And then obviously, the Convex model came out after that.

Midas 44:20
Man, can you can you hear me or this has just stopped?

Apollo DAO 44:25
Yeah I can hear you.

₿RUCΞ 44:26
I can hear you good.

Midas 44:27
All right, man. This is frickin amazing. Cephii. Welcome. Do you have any question for for these gentlemen from Apollo DAO?

Cephii 44:38
Yeah. So I was trying to figure out at this moment for the average person listening who’s interested in acquiring ASTRO tokens, besides simply outright buying them on the DEX, obviously, the community farming way back is not an option now. But is there a way to establish a vault where you stake… Not stake but hold bonded LUNA, for example, and that goes to buying the APOLLO tokens? I’m just curious if something like that can be made a thing to where we could keep our LUNA exposure and then basically dollar cost average into the APOLLO token, is that something feasible?

₿RUCΞ 45:31
Yep. More than feasible, it’s on its way. So one of the next vaults we’ll be having is basically a vault based off nLUNA and nETH as well. So you’d be able to have your exposure to LUNA, to Ethereum. It’ll be autocompounding the rewards but also providing APOLLO tokens, as well. And I think the more different types of LUNA yields… And we’re seeing quite a few coming out at the moment. So I think the more there are the more options we could add. And I think the end goal for something like this would be to have a Yearn type of vault that would then… You’d put your LUNA in and it would move you between the different LUNA opportunities. We’re also working on introducing the stLUNA vault as well. So getting pretty close to that, I think with the also having kind of the lighter rewards as well, I think we’re just waiting on a pool for those to be traded as well. So yeah, a few pieces coming into place, but there should be multiple different options based on what people are looking to do. But yeah, definitely something we’re keen to introduce.

Cephii 46:46
But basically, specifically the ability to acquire Apollo in this fashion, not just to acquire other things, I should say. Does that make sense?

₿RUCΞ 47:00
Yeah, that makes sense. So the implementation at the moment would be that most of the yields are autocompounded and then you get APOLLO tokens on top. But maybe we could also… Once that’s actually introduced we could also look at having it as a pure accumulation vote as well. Not something we’re currently working on but I feel like the changes needed to do that would be relatively easy as well. And then that could also introduce some interesting ways for APOLLO to also utilize our LUNA holdings as well.

Apollo DAO 47:35
Yeah, I think that’s an interesting idea, you’re basically saying deposit bLUNA and then that UST automatically dollar cost averages into another token, kind of more of like, I guess, like a programmable DCA vault. Is that kind of what you were mentioning? You put in the bLUNA and then the UST yields…

Cephii 47:54
Yeah, ’cause a lot of people instinctually want to maintain their LUNA yield… I’m sorry, they want to maintain their LUNA and one important feature of bonded LUNA is that you can use it to manage LTV on your various platforms in terms of lending, so what that allows is for you to go in and out of, let’s say, farming APOLLO token when you feel like it, or MARS, or whatever, but then if the need arises, you can jump right back when you feel like it to go and manage LTV. And I find myself constantly doing this and a significant portion of APOLLO and MARS tokens and such that I’ve personally acquired were related to borrowing off of existing LUNA to maintain that price exposure. And so the easier you can make that for people I think the more likely you’re going to get participation in the actual buying of the either MARS or APOLLO coins.

Apollo DAO 49:06
Yeah, no, I definitely agree on the thing where… I’m like a similar style trader as that. I like to keep obviously a real solid chunk of my core holdings in full LUNA exposure. So I’m definitely keen on getting more, I guess, LUNA programmable yield vaults or even… I had been talking to Stader a while back, I don’t know if we’ll ever get this into the roadmap, ’cause it’s just so clogged up but similar thing where you could basically stake your LUNA and then those… But obviously it’s not as liquid, but you’d be able to stake the LUNA and then those LUNA rewards will be redirected into, say, any LP vaults or any single side vault. So I think that you could definitely do that with the bLUNA vault and like you said, you’d be able to exit that vault, and bring that liquid bLUNA over to Anchor to basically increase your collateral ratio if needed. So I think that that is actually pretty dope, would be pretty dope vault. It would be a good farming tool because then your bLUNA is liquid, but then you can basically be buying into other tokens while you’re kind of sitting on the bLUNA yield.

Midas 50:30
Any chance of this happening this year?

Apollo DAO 50:33
I’d say in a year, possibly. But it depends because once we get all the… Basically they’re the CW20 base vaults, once we get all that out, then we’ll be able to do a lot more of the programmable… I guess, programmable yield redirection. And I think that vault would actually be huge for the community farming events too, where users could come over, drop bLUNA into the community farming event, the yield will be used to dollar cost average into whichever product is launching. So I think it will be a really useful vault for the farmers market also.

Midas 51:14
Nice, and just one question. Regarding, for example, Mars vaults or integration with the Mars CtoC lending, when do you think you will be integrating or getting these strategies live?

₿RUCΞ 51:34
We’re definitely aiming for as soon as possible. So it’s worked out really well. So in terms of the actual platform, Mars has done a lot of the… Or pretty much all of the heavy lifting and the groundwork on that. So we’ve only had to make a few minor changes. So yeah, so it’ll really come down to the governance side of things. So we’re preparing our proposal for a credit line, and we’re just making a few final changes, and then it will really come down to whether we go initially with our platform, that’s basically just the Mars contracts, but in an Apollo design, and then launch our platform with the changes slightly later on. Or we initially go with the slightly changed platform. And in terms of changes, it really is just allowing APOLLO rewards to be added on top. So yeah, so that’s pretty much finished. Once it’s all finished, we’ll have it over to the Mars team. And then we can really get down into the details of which one of those two options would be better to go with first. And then we can get the governance proposals up for the credit line. And then once that’s approved, we’d be pretty much ready to go. So yeah, I think it will depend on the Mars governance, but ideally, it’ll be in a matter of weeks, I think could be a matter of weeks, or maybe a month or so would be the ideal, but looking to get it up as soon as possible.

Midas 53:12
I love it. José, you have any questions or anybody here on the Space that wants to ask any question, just click on the Request button and I’ll get you here upstage.

José Maria Macedo 53:26
You mentioned there’s 11 of you, I’m curious how many devs are you? Because you’re building a lot of stuff.

Apollo DAO 53:33
Yes, we’re probably around seven or eight devs right now, I think. Yeah, around there. Yeah, then we have four non-technical. And then we have… I definitely can’t dev, actually dev anything meaningful. But I did use Rust and all this, and Docker and started messing around on testnet and deploying contracts. And I think that that’s really made it a lot easier for me to, I guess, recruit dev talent now because I’ve spent a solid year just chillin with Other Mike now, and then obviously Sturdy, and we have a bunch of other contract devs as well. So now spending all this time with them, it’s really kind of opened my eyes to, I guess, how the backend of all this works because I was more of a frontend user. And I think that the dev stuff is really interests me now. So I think that that’s helped us scale our dev team is me, Bruce and some of our non-technical people have put in a lot of time and effort to fully understanding smart contracts, infrastructure, nodes, price fees, oracles, how that stuff all works. So it definitely makes a smoother experience to work between the non-technical and the technical people if the non-technical people put in some work on that. I know Midas himself is a self-taught guy too. So shoutout to him.

Midas 55:04
By the way, everything he just said is a lie, because there is only one developer on Terra, remember that. Okay, so yeah, everybody else is just following his steps.

Apollo DAO 55:17

Midas 55:17
Yeah, we’re not the real devs.

Apollo DAO 55:21
Yeah, we’re at around eight, devs and looking to scale up as well. So I’m gonna be at a bunch of the other hackathons throughout the next few months, Chicago, Texas, I’m gonna go to a bunch of these hackathons. And I have a bunch of devs that I’ve became friends with that were working in web2. And now they’re transitioning over to web3. So it’s been a good clash of DeFi degen with web2 dev, and then you kind of get this baby, which is a web3 dev out of that once you pill them. So I’m definitely really interested in scaling the dev community as a whole on Terra, and then obviously, for Apollo as well. But there should be way more dev talent out there I think so that’s definitely something I’m keen on growing. I’d like to see us get up there to 10+ devs, would be nice.

Midas 56:19
Nice. We have to speak about that. Just let’s go ahead with Itamar because he has been waiting here to ask his question. Itamar, are you here?

Itamar Reif 56:30
Oh, yeah, I was gonna follow up on that and see… What is your guys’ plan for having open source contributors and that kind of thing? Do you guys have the infrastructure for that? Have you allocated a person to kind of manage that? What is the…

₿RUCΞ 56:50
Yeah, great question. So I think this has two different strands. First of all, on the security side, so we’re currently having a full… We had our initial audits from Oak security, and then at the moment, we’re having a full audit from Halborn. And that’s going to go over all the… Everything from the frontend, the backend, and everything in between. So kind of looking to get this all completed before going open source. And then kind of on the other side as well, we’re really looking at simplifying, but also making all the contracts a lot more independent from each other to really make this a lot easier to open source and have open source contributors. And then I guess, the final bit as well, would be looking more at different bounty solutions. So as mentioned earlier, Astroport put one up. And I think this is quite an interesting way to go in terms of the more open source approach of having task based bounties for certain applications. And I think the governance side will also make this easier, because not only will they be able to propose ideas they think, and then we can put up the bounty proposals. But then they can also accept them or choose which proposals they think will be best. So yes, definitely a direction we’re looking to go relatively soon.

₿RUCΞ 58:21
And I guess there’s just a few other small things around stuff like licenses and everything like this is just stuff that takes, I guess, time and resources. And even if they’re not super long things to do, there’s always 10 things to do when you’ve got nine people kind of thing. So there’s always lots of our plates. So yeah, I think it’s something that’s pretty important to get done and definitely a direction we’ll be looking to move pretty soon.

Apollo DAO 58:49
Yeah, definitely. Basically like a cleanup refactor, get that full blown audit, and then get the proper licensing and then create the bounty program and then definitely move to open source and then go from there. But yeah, we definitely wanted to just make sure that it was actually ready for other people to build on and stuff like that. And the licensing, we kind of had to figure that stuff out a little bit, ’cause we were a hackathon team so there was a lot of stuff that early on we just didn’t really have any access to, or resources, or a lot of that stuff. So a lot of that stuff, we kind of had to figure out on the way and we wanted to definitely just make sure that we had it all properly factored, properly audited, and properly licensed, and all that so definitely looking forward to getting that done because it’s definitely something that I’m definitely keen on getting done as fast as possible for sure. But we’re definitely gonna have a lot more open source contributors, and I think that’ll help scale the development a lot more too.

₿RUCΞ 59:53
Yeah, I think also the exciting thing around that will be not only be able to help scale our development, but also scaling the overall Terra development as well. So being compared to something like Ethereum, or an EVM chain where a lot of this stuff is already built. So for example, with a lot of the yield farms and stuff, it still comes from the synthetic code, and then it’s been built on and developed from then, but it just means it’s very quick to deploy certain features. So I think the more that’s built, the more open sourced, the sooner you’ll see products released, and the quicker they can be built and it’s becomes building with building blocks rather than having to build everything from scratch as well. So I think that will help not only the ecosystem, but then that gives us more opportunities to invest in these projects, or farm these projects. And yeah, so I think it’d be beneficial in multiple different ways.

Apollo DAO 1:00:54
Then we’d be interested to see also the beautiful thing about, I guess, open source development too is people can build stuff on top of your product, and I guess, build additional features, build products that integrate with Apollo, and creating, I guess, layers on top of Apollo. That’s really what I’m looking forward to with the open source too, is just having Apollo be, I guess, one of the building blocks, and other people can come in and tap into what Apollo is already doing. And there’s a whole nother realm of products that could be built, I guess, especially the application layer on top of the smart contract protocol layers. So I definitely think that it’ll definitely be big for us and help us scale a lot. So definitely looking forward to that. But yeah, at the very moment, not much on the open source development side of us as we still are finishing up that core product to be licensed and all that.

Midas 1:01:53
Definitely looking out for that. So guys, for the last question here, we’re going to have ShareWizard. Ser, are you around?

ShareWizard 1:02:02
Yeah, yeah, thank you so much. Love the Space. This is a lot of great information being shared. So I’m definitely hearing that community involvement is really important to the team. I think that’s fantastic, and that’s been a big topic of today where I see that being really useful, I think there’s gonna be a question after the comment here is, like you said, having an open source frontend development. Cephii gave a great example of how the community can propose different vault strategies that could be beneficial in terms of tokens. And you guys obviously welcomed that idea and had been thinking about it. I think going back to the conversation with José in the beginning of what I have a hard time visualizing as successful is having a decentralized, or DAO, or community decision making around the fund strategies, the fund management side, because in a lot of ways, it is a PvP world. And you’re at risk of not only frontrunning, like you said before, but just having too many cooks in the kitchen. So I’m just curious if it would be beneficial to say, the fund management strategy is, for lack of a better reason doesn’t have a lot of positive reasons to open that up to the entire community, things move slowly, we’ll maybe at risk of front running, but when it comes to making the product more useful for the community, and just continue to add development, we’re very, very open to the creativity and leveraging the community for that. I’m just curious what your thoughts on the reasons not to make the fund management side of it, the what assets to acquire and when, a little bit more private, and just your overall take on that.

₿RUCΞ 1:04:06
Yeah, I think we’ll definitely have to see how it plays out. And I think this is… The thoughts so far have really been around just making sure that the proposals are really solid and working with the community on creating them. And I think this will mitigate a lot of the downsides and the risk of this. And I think also combined with that we do have… Or the positive sides in that is we have a lot of community members that have some very good suggestions and also they just will be able to monitor a lot of different opportunities and really start to expand the view of the fund and especially as it grows, there might be a lot more opportunities that we aren’t even aware of that the community can then bring and then we can work together on creating these proposals as well. I think the points you highlighted are very valid. And they definitely might be potentials. But I think stuff like the dollar cost averaging, rather than buying helps with the frontrunning.

₿RUCΞ 1:05:16
And I think there’s also more possibilities as well in the future. And this is more hypothetical, but you could have stuff like… As the fund grows, you could almost split it down, or split it up into potentially multiple different bits that are managed by different groups, or you could have something like a… Well, I think it was mentioned in the beginning, you could almost have a council of people that maybe actually… So the community could maybe submit proposals to the council, the council would discuss them and make sure that they work and that they’re feasible, and they would then be submitted for governance. So I think they’re very good points. And I think it’s almost a little bit hard to say until we get there. And this is why we’re looking to slowly and gradually decentralized rather than instantly decentralized. So we can really explore how these actually work in practice, rather than just theory crafting around how they’re going to work. So yeah, I think it’s a really good point. And it’s gonna be interesting to explore. But I think there’s always solutions that can work and things that can be implemented based on the experience of how things actually work out in practice. But, yeah, good point to bring up and I think it’s something we will need to explore more and be slow and careful about how this is all managed.

ShareWizard 1:06:40
Thanks so much.

Midas 1:06:41
Definitely, if we think about the whole DeFi right now is we’re experimenting a lot with new ways of not only creating finance, but also organizing ourselves and creating ways of working together as well in these new spaces. So yeah, that will be my two cents in here.

Apollo DAO 1:07:01
Yeah, it’s definitely still a bit of an experiment, I guess. But yeah, I think it really depends too on… I think that yeah, if we were to… I know a lot of projects gets pretty apathetic on the governance, or the team kind of expects like, “Oh, open source. Here’s our token governance, now it’s on all you guys, have fun.” So I think that’s definitely one thing where I’m definitely really keen on being leaders in the governance and actually really driving certain things home. But yeah, I can’t really imagine us making… I mean, I don’t know what the hell people are gonna want to do, but making large liquid investments, just based off basically what you said, where there’s just so much frontrunning and stuff. So I think that we’ll probably hold most of the assets for almost ever, as long as they’re useful to the warchest. So I guess, because we’re going to be holding for a long time and dollar cost averaging in, we might be able to avoid some of those issues. But yeah, like you said, there is that gray area that I’m always thinking about where it’s like, if you announce, “Hey, we’re gonna buy this amount of this, on this day, once this passes,” you can just basically get frontrun pretty easily. So I definitely think that they’ll have to be some new type of model built in where it’s a happy medium between fully decentralized asset management and Sifu. You need a medium in between there, where it’s not just one person slush fund, but it’s not also everyone’s free money frontrun, too. So that is definitely something that, I guess, I can’t say there’s a real answer to other than, I guess, we’ll see what happens and try to work through it.

ShareWizard 1:08:56
Yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, just to put a piggyback off what you said as being a part of the Wonderland experience. Half of it really is managing expectations, because the thought of part of this is going to be fully decentralized, we’d have proposals and on how to manage the funds, then… I mean, you could see how many opinions come in really quickly, and then how do you pull it back gently? It’s tricky, so I agree about your responses on that.

Apollo DAO 1:09:30
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I know, obviously, over at Wonderland, they were fronrrunning their own stuff, too. So I guess it comes down to your own ethics of what kind of information you have and how you use it. Whereas they were… Whatever you want to say about them, I think that it was, like I said, they got to the point where it was slightly manipulative what they were doing. So that’s definitely one thing that I’m not the biggest proponent of is having that one face of the warchest type thing, that’s definitely something I don’t want, where it’s like, you have like… Basically, I feel like I’ll get hate or whatever it’s like the whole Frog Nation thing where basically they were… In my opinion, like I said, whatever their intentions were, they were really drawing in people with this lore and this like, “Oh, Frog Nation, we’re with the people,” but then if you look at the chain, and what was happening, they were basically slush funding and using everyone else’s in their own liquidity, whether it was permissible or not, in my opinion, was slightly malicious. So, that’s definitely something that I’m kind of keen on avoiding that, whole public front man, that’s trying to get all these big clout and followers and fans. That’s kind of where you run into that issue of where then you’re easily frontrun, because you’re making sure everyone’s paying attention to you, too.

Apollo DAO 1:10:58
So I think that’s one of Apollo’s strengths was that we’re, I guess, kind of known, but we kind of go under the radar a lot because we don’t have, necessarily, that big like… The Danny type out there, kind of like you said, promoting their own brand through Apollo, prefer to have Apollo itself just speak for itself, it’s success, as opposed to some of the other models out there where you’re… I’m not the biggest fan of… One thing I’m not the biggest fan of is shilling the price of your token, or basically kind of like suckering people into wanting to buy it through the way that you talk about it, which I just think is a little bit, like I said, unethical to where then you’re actually trying to steer people in the wrong direction. And saying like, “Oh, if you’re not buying now, then you’re never gonna make it,” or whatever, that type of stuff. But it’s definitely something that I thought was… I kind of just saw it turn from this fun DeFi thing into I’m like, “Whoa, this is getting weird,” and then it started coming out. So yeah, I’m definitely very keen of that key man risk as well, too. Because you’ll definitely see that a lot in DeFi is key man risk, which we try to mitigate that as a source of a way to decentralize the product if say me, or Bruce got hit by a bus, Apollo would still be going. But I hope I don’t get hit by a bus. [chuckle]

Midas 1:12:34
No, hopefully not. [chuckle] Alright, guys, so just to recap everything that we’ve been talking about, major leak as we touched on a lot of points here. I know that Apollo DAO is going to be building some vaults that will be using Mars CtoC lending, that you’re just waiting a little bit for the governance for that to happen. And for you to finish some details, put up the governance proposal, and that will come to life. And this will also benefit a lot of stuff that you’re planning to do with Astroport, which is building a type of Convex on top of it. And well, you’ve also been accumulating MARS and xMARS tokens and beyond what you’re doing with Mars, I know that you are going to be having this APOLLO staking, you’re going to have the single assets vaults, starting with nLUNA and with nETH, if I recall correctly. And you’re going to have the APOLLO vault tokens. And yeah, a lot of improvements for your DAO, which is kind of what ShareWizard was asking here. And I know you guys have been instrumental in creating a lot of the infrastructure, a lot of the new stuff that DAOs in different protocols and different projects are going to be building on top off, for example, the multisig vault that you have. It’s super important. And it’s an aspect that was missing before in Terra, right. So I know that you guys, when you started this DAO, it was kind of complicated because there wasn’t a lot of tools out there. There wasn’t a lot of things built but I’m super happy and super excited to see everything that has happened in one year and that how Apollo is going to be building more and more and more and happy to be part of these big LUNA Terra family. Definitely. So thank you very much guys for being here. Bruce, Anon, Larry also for co-hosting here, José, which he’s not anymore in this Space, he had to leave. But thank you very much, guys, for your time.

₿RUCΞ 1:14:53
Thanks so much for having us on. Really enjoyed it. Always great to hear and yeah, you’ve released a great product with Mars. So really excited to see that grow, be part of it and be stakers and get part of the governance as well. So, yeah, thanks so much.

Midas 1:15:10
Awesome. See you next time, guys.

Apollo DAO 1:15:14
Hopefully I’ll see you at another TeFi Alpha event soon.

Midas 1:15:18
Oh, definitely you have to go, if you’re going to be developing some stuff and going to hackathons, just a small advertisement here, there’s going to be a TeFi Alpha Buenos Aires, so shout outs to the Latin America community for doing this. You have to be there as well, man.

Apollo DAO 1:15:34
Damn, that’s what I do love about this stuff is it takes me all over the world. And I get to meet all these super interesting people. So there’s always the fulfillment part of it as well that I really enjoy. Especially I was anonymous in the beginning. Now, I’m pretty doxxed for the most part in person. So it’s nice to kind of just meet other people in the same mission, it’s a little bit more fulfilling than sitting in the basement alone. [chuckle]

₿RUCΞ 1:15:35
Yeah, I have to agree, I definitely would recommend anyone getting involved in any of the events, whether it’s kind of the online hackathons, the in person hackathons, the TeFi events, for me it’s been completely life changing. So yes, even if you’re a non-dev, there’s still lots you can do in the ecosystem, and lots you can help, and sometimes you don’t even realize what you can add to the ecosystem. So there’s never any harm getting involved. You’ve got nothing to lose, and we’ll kind of always recommend it to anyone.

Midas 1:16:34
Awesome. So thank you very much, guys, and everybody who stayed here in the Space as well. Thank you very much for listening. Stay tuned for the next Mars Protocol AMAs and Apollo DAO as well, go to their Twitter account and have fun with their products.

Apollo DAO 1:16:49
Yeah, we’ll have to have you on one of our Twitter Spaces again, maybe in a month or a couple of weeks down the road once once more stuff comes up. And then we can do an update one.

Midas 1:17:00
We’d love to be there. I’m pretty sure José is the best person or Sage because they’re more fluid whenever they’re speaking. I’m practicing. I’m getting better. And hopefully, yeah, I’ll be able to have a more fluid conversation with you guys in the future. So count with me for that.

Apollo DAO 1:17:20
Yeah, no worries, man. Awesome. Always great to have you. Take it easy, guys.

Midas 1:17:24
Take it easy. Bye bye.

₿RUCΞ 1:17:25
Thank you. Bye.

Finn 1:17:26
Thanks for checking out another episode of The Ether. That was the Mars and Apollo DAO AMA, Recorded on Thursday, March 10th 2022. This episode of The Ether was brought to you by WeFund. WeFund is a community crowdfunding cross-chain incubator on Terra and it’s the first launchpad that implements a milestone funding release system to protect investors. All money raised for projects is deposited in Anchor Protocol and it’s refundable, and all decisions are based on community voting power. WeFund is community focused and designed to be a user friendly experience for both project creators and investors. Be sure to follow them on Twitter and join the Telegram for more information. Links are in the show notes and check them out online at This episode of The Ether was also brought to you by Glow Yield. Glow Yield is the ecosystem of Terra decentralized apps like Lotto and Creators all powered by DeFi yields. Glow Creators helps artists and influencers give their fans exclusive perks through membership NFTs and more. Glow Lotto is a price link savings account with a weekly chance to win the big jackpot. Tickets are free and perpetual which means there’s zero chance to lose money. Be sure to follow Glow Yield on Twitter and join the Discord community to stay up to date with all the glowing projects and check them out online at This episode of The Ether was also brought to you by Talis. Talis protocol is the NFT platform for independent artists on Terra. Talis helps to provide artists with the tools and resources needed to transition from traditional arts into the NFT world. With their V1 launch coming soon, Talis will be the place to see real world art reflected on Terra. Be sure to join their Telegram and follow Talis on Twitter for updates on their roadmap, validator, and other Talis news. Find your next favorite artist on TerraSpaces appreciates the support from all our sponsors. For, I’m Finn. Thanks for listening.