Transcript: LUNAomics Cephii Interview


Finn 0:42
Hello and welcome to The Ether. Today is Tuesday, February 1st 2022. This episode of The Ether is brought to you by Talis. Talis Protocol is the NFT platform for independent artists on Terra. Talis helps to provide artists with the tools and resources needed to transition from traditional art into the NFT world. With their V1 launch coming soon, Talis will be the place to see real world art reflected on Terra. Be sure to join their Telegram and follow Talis on Twitter for updates on their roadmap, validator, and other Talis news. Also, be sure to check out Terra-Rex, LunaWormz, and 625 NFT – Planets, now minting on Talis. Find your next favorite artist on This episode of The Ether is also brought to you by Orbital Command, a community validator on Terra dedicated to educating, expanding, and promoting the LUNAtic community. Visit OC’s What We Do page using the link in the show notes to take advantage of some of their other educational resources including weekly meetups to discuss Terra protocols, strategies and concepts, the Terra Luna Intel Report on Telegram, YouTube explainer videos on Terra concepts, and the Terra Investment Strategies Discord server. Come hang out. You can also support their community efforts by considering them next time you’re delegating or redelegating your LUNA. Find out more at TerraSpaces appreciates the support from all our sponsors. Today on The Ether we have the LUNAomics interview with Cephii. Let’s take a listen.

LUNAomics 2:16
Do I call you Cephii, or Cephii? I hear both…

Cephii 2:19
Cephii’s fine.

LUNAomics 2:20
Oh, Cephii. Okay, cool. And we’ve got a couple of minutes before we get started. Hey, thanks for taking the time, Cephii, I really appreciate it.

Cephii 2:30
Yeah, sure. And I think we were just trying to flesh out some potentially buying strategies for I guess almost anything, right. Not necessarily LUNA specifically, but just general philosophy.

LUNAomics 2:45
Yeah, I mean, anything. I have a bunch of questions I have that I wanted to ask you. And then yeah, we can just play it by ear.

Cephii 2:54
Shoot, go for it, then. I guess we can…

LUNAomics 2:58
Yeah, let’s get started. So I think most everybody here on this space knows who you are. You’re known for your 6-8 hour Spaces that last throughout the night. I’m in Hawaii, so I actually can listen in on some of your Spaces. I go to sleep, and when I wake up, they’re still… There was one time that I woke up and you’re still going when I woke up. [chuckle] You’re known for your projections of LUNA with your rocket ship on Twitter, knowledgeable in everything from tech, finance, medicine, disruptive technology, working on a Nexus vault with a rebalancing feature that adds liquidity and demand for LUNA. You got people, including myself, into the trading bots on KuCoin, and also the whole topic of dynamic dollar cost averaging was something that I never heard about before, but you introduced me to that. One of the things that is really interesting that you talked about on your Spaces is the whole topic of AI, and how it’s going to disrupt employment in general. I think that that’s pretty cool. Let’s see. I think the thing that really kind of turned my head to first time that I heard you talk about was LUNA being this black hole in the Terra ecosystem that sucks value from all these other protocols because everybody wants to acquire LUNA. So they’ll just dump these other protocols, or other tokens to acquire LUNA. And you said it was almost like an organic quality control of the whole Terra ecosystem, and I never thought about it like that before. But the more I thought about it, it’s so true that Terra’s tokenomics are so good that a product that’s developed on the Terra ecosystem has to be excellent in what they do for for it to survive. So I thought that was really interesting. And the more I thought about it, it’s this apex asset, LUNA is this apex asset that just kind of eats everything that can’t have the same kind of excellence in tokenomics and utility.

LUNAomics 5:19
Yeah. So before we jump into the questions I had a question more about your background, if you wouldn’t mind me asking. You talked about your early investment years in Apple, and how that kind of led to investments in cryptocurrency, and specifically when you talk about the early days, it was the Apple iPhone, and you saw the writing on the wall and how Apple would disrupt communication and the iPhone app was going to change the whole world. And you saw the same kind of technology, and the disruptive capability of Bitcoin and how you invested in it in the early days. So I guess my question is, what’s your story? How did you first… In the early days, when you didn’t have a lot of capital, and you were just getting started in investing and you saw Apple, what were the things that made you invest in Apple? And then go to Bitcoin, and then Ethereum, and finally in LUNA, what’s your thought process of… If you were to go back to the very beginning, would you kind of walk us through how you developed the assets that you have now? Did you always dollar cost average? How was it when you first got started?

Cephii 6:48
Yeah, let me kind of… I’m the type of kid that would put shit in the electric socket when we’re children, right. [chuckle] So pretty much the type of person that would take everything apart, put it back together, and then learn electronics fairly early, learned just building stuff, whether it was coding on early computers, or playing with electronics, and understanding how that works. So there eventually comes a point where when you start really young, you sort of develop a little bit of tech intuition to some extent. You also get, hopefully, a little bit of engineering skill and mathematic skill along the way. So education wise, I graduated three years younger than most people, I was kind of the youngest person in medical school in that area, in the history of that school. So I started super early in everything. And basically, it’s always working, creating, making things, drawing things. I mean, literally, there’s not a moment that sort of goes by that something’s not going on. So I tend to kind of be in a lot of things, and that helps a lot with figuring out, first off, what makes good fundamentals. I think the most obvious thing is that it is for most people difficult to do their own research. That’s the first problem, I would say. And I’m not saying I picked everything with the best research in the universe, I’m not like some kind of sit around, totally being an analyst. I look at products and companies from the perspective of is this something I would use? And if I would use it, do I envision other people using it? And then I look at things also from the perspective of simplicity. I was always a huge fan of Jobs who… To paraphrase one of his quotes, essentially, making things simple is really hard. So taking, for example, a button on a computer or a phone and getting rid of it requires a lot of ingenuity to eliminate a step. So I’m always looking at user interface and design as sort of a hallmark of the overall engineering competence of a team or a piece of software, or a product or whatever, right.

Cephii 9:38
And I think, over time people sorted that out. Ultimately, when a technology works really well under the hood, the complexity’s mostly under the hood, and the surface level experience, although maybe seemingly simple, is exceedingly more complicated now than it ever was before, right. If you guys built your own PC, or whatever, back in the day to play video games and had to figure out how to load up drivers and make the thing work, and then the drivers would break, and then you can play video games anymore. So there’s a lot that goes into tech, and I think the network effect of technology, if you look at some of the big networks, like the credit card networks, the internet, Bitcoin, in the smartphone arena, it was the App Store network and all the connections that you get there. I think mostly I just have stuck to network effects style of investments for a vast majority of things I cared about, and I guess, perhaps because I was lucky in maybe going down that pathway, because there’s a lot of interesting things in the world, they don’t all necessarily make a lot of money, but are maybe very good things. But it just so happens that almost everything I try to look for is a network effects based fundamental. So and I think, Terra to me, for all the reasons that people here use Terra now understand why it should have high network effects. It seems like it’s network effects on crack. I mean, it’s really…

Cephii 11:22
Because the thing most people want is money, which is why people think about price action more than anything. It’s the most powerful meme. And if you have a coin that is designed to generally go up, like BTC, or whatever, long run, you’re likely to do well holding it. And that is a story you can tell your friends and family, right. So anything that you can legitimately tell your friends to use, your family members to use, it’s more likely to have that network effect. If I can’t explain to my family and friends why they should get on, I don’t know, the iPhone or whatever, or Google Android, or I don’t know, pick your network, if you can’t explain it to someone really well and fairly concisely, then it’s probably not as good as you think it is. So I find myself… All the different issues I used to have explaining crypto to people, whether it was Bitcoin, or anything else, I felt like Terra did a good job encompassing all of the stories I used to have to tell people. And that’s what makes it compelling to me as far as choosing that particular fundamental in my mind, in terms of my litmus test of does this pass my, I don’t know, my personal test of whether I should invest in it. You mentioned the issue of the coin being the gold standard, and so therefore sucking the life out of other coins, other chains, and for example, other coins on the Cosmos or for that matter, Terra alts? And that wasn’t entirely my like personal discovery. It was more like people like Gavin Woods said this, and I think even Charles Hoskinson, maybe Vitalik, I don’t remember who all I heard this from, but the basic problem is, is that when you have a deflationary system, whether it’s the Federal Reserve, central banks, whether it’s a crypto network, the problem with a deflationary coin is you don’t want to use it as currency. So if you are using cryptocurrency as currency, for example, your Polkadot, or your ADA, or whatever, and the price is persistently deflationary, you’re more likely to hoard it and hold it because imagine if your dollars in your bank account, or your euros in your bank account, imagine if they net you a 20% yield, why would you start a business because it’s not actually possible to make more money at your business possibly than just simply earning the yield, right.

Cephii 14:03
So the LUNA deflationary model, it doesn’t necessarily make it a good currency. But that’s the magic, it’s not meant to be a good currency, it’s meant to just simply be the asset holding of the network, and UST is the currency, which solves this problem essentially. And you can print as much UST as you damn well please, right, in the long run. So you’re not basically supply-constrained there. And any increase in supply of UST you essentially create a more deflationary pressure for LUNA. So I just don’t know, I can’t figure out how the rest of the cryptocurrencies on the planet continue to exist when such a thing exists, right. How can you possibly have that and then still have all the currencies in the world, as far as digital assets? It doesn’t make sense. So the way that Charles Hoskinson of Cardano says it is, and I don’t remember which video it is, or whatever, I’m just sort of paraphrasing here, but his idea was, well, you want the the sub tokens on the network to possibly have even better tokenomics than the primary token. But that just seems like a cop out in the sense that, well, so in other words, you’re purposefully hampering your primary token so that you can make an artificial environment… It doesn’t work, because that might work if the whole world was on Cardano. But the whole world’s not on Cardano, right. People are on LUNA, they’re on other networks. So you have competition. And in that situation, the most aggressive tokenomics, the biggest growth drivers ends up winning, is kind of how I think about it. right. Same thing like why would you get Bitcoin versus the dollar or something like that. It’s the same kind of argument to some extent. But does that make sense in terms of how I think of the fundamentals. And by the way, I don’t have lots and lots of other investments that I find to be as good as the few that I care about. It’s actually fairly difficult to find really good stocks, or whatever, to invest in, in my opinion. [chuckle]

LUNAomics 16:15
Yeah. Yeah, I remember somebody, I forgot who was saying it, but they were saying that you always want to invest in the front leader of any technology, whether it’s Tesla with cars, you don’t want to split your money up between Tesla and Toyota and other cars, or if it’s social media, you don’t want to invest in a whole bunch, you just want to get the one that has the best network effects, like Facebook, or Google for search, or whatever it is, you want to have the number one. Especially in a world where information is so readily accessible, and you can have number one. So with Terra, do you see any kind of currency that could catch up with the network effects that it’s already created between UST and LUNA? The UST use case, for UST, and then the value capture of the UST in LUNA? For somebody to compete with LUNA, they would have to kind of catch up to what they’re doing, because now that they’re doing it, everybody can see that’s a great map for success. But they’re so far in front, can you see anybody catching them up?

Cephii 17:30
I think anything’s possible, of course. There were a fair number of flip phones and whatnot that came about before the current regime of smartphones. So you never really can be totally sure about anything. But like you said, it is pretty hard to catch up. And the faster that Terra moves, and that’s really, really important actually, right now, because the faster it moves, and the more infrastructure is built specific to UST, the less likely lots of corporations or businesses or exchanges are going to want to build another set of infrastructure for another set of decentralized stablecoins. They might because in theory, decentralization might argue for multiple types of decentralized stablecoins. So that not all your eggs are in one basket, and there’s some counter-peg mechanisms against different coins. There’s all sorts of arguments for that kind of competition, but in the real world, what ends up happening is usually the biggest network effects win, and it’s hard for the next guy to emerge. I imagined in my head who’s gonna be the next Apple or Google to take down smartphones. And I think there’s a brand in China and things like that, but it’s really pretty hard to catch up, I think. The amount of resources it would take, the amount of… One of the ideas originally with Bitcoin was, one of the interesting principles of it, actually, is that there’s so little money that actually had to be used to create it, the decentralization happened early on, fairly naturally, outside of, of course, Satoshi wallet. A lot of the early miners and such did on laptops and whatnot. And basically, you wind up with a fairly decentralized network that didn’t require any advertising plan, right. Because advertising implies centralization, which is what makes me nervous about linking Terra with a sports team or something right now, but…

LUNAomics 19:54
I feel the same way about that.

Cephii 19:58
But what I’m saying is is that with Bitcoin, to replicate what Bitcoin did in terms of decentralization, think about how much… So if you look at what advertisers say that the Apple brand name is worth, right. There are people that estimate just its brand value alone could be worth $100 or $200 billion, depending on how you make up that number. And what they’re trying to say is, if you had to have every human being on the planet know the name Apple, it would take that much money, perhaps, of advertising dollars to get your name on to every brain on the planet, essentially, right. Even if you don’t own an Apple phone, you know what Apple is if you live on the planet today. In fact, I think when Steve Jobs died, there were more people that knew who Steve Jobs was than Jesus Christ, and Allah, and whatever, [chuckles] even compared to the prevailing gods of our day, more people knew who Steve was back then. It was a pretty fascinating dynamic, right. But fast forward to Bitcoin, and then go now to all the other crypto, in order to copy what Bitcoin did, it’s almost impossible to catch up without having a massive advertising program, right. And so if you have to do advertising, the problem is that has all of the problems of centralization, because usually who has that much money to advertise? Massive venture capital firms, which implies a centralized element. And even today, nobody should be under the illusion, by the way, that Terra’s funds are not necessarily centralized. They are. I’m just comfortable with it. I don’t have a problem with it, necessarily. Because I’ve owned centralized companies before, they still had network effects, right. So that’s not necessarily… Decentralization to me is important. But at the same time, it’s almost impossible to copy what Bitcoin did, and have any sort of reasonable technological velocity. Does that make sense?

LUNAomics 22:17
And it helps that Do has voiced the intention of decentralization and his actions have supported what he’s said that his intentions are.

Cephii 22:26
Yeah, for sure. And I think that that is important, but you know how the peanut gallery and the Internet acts, right. It doesn’t matter what the subject matter is. The reality is that FUD spreads like wildfire, and people just make shit up no matter what happens. This is the reason why Satoshi is not a visible person. Because this is the kind of problem you run into. And if you have the game played out long enough… This is what happened with devs in video game systems. So back during RuneScape and EverQuest, what would happen is anytime something bad happened, let’s say for example, some items that you worked real hard for gotten nerfed in a video game, by nerfed I mean the stats were too powerful so they cut the stats down, if you’ve ever played multiplayer online games, you’ll know what I’m talking about. But what happened is, is that people would go after with pitchforks against these people because the folks were paying big money on eBay and stuff for golden items and different things. And now you go and just arbitrarily reduce the feature set of that item that was bought, it’s just weird, right. So centralization problems are already recognized in the video game economies space of the late 90s. And that translated to how Bitcoin essentially played out in terms of why the founder is just not there, right. That doesn’t mean that Satoshi has no wallets, by the way, nobody knows that, right. But there’s no reason to actually reveal who that is, it actually devalues the currency one way or the other, right. [chuckles] So I think, Terra, if there was a negative point to it right now, I think the most obvious negative point people are gonna point out, assuming of course, peg holds and all that, is the centralized aspect of the funds and the more that’s done to work on that, I think that’ll be a good thing.

LUNAomics 24:23
Very cool. Okay, let’s jump into… Could I jump into some strategy questions or investment questions? I’m very curious to know your mindset behind dollar cost averaging, dynamic dollar cost averaging. I pulled up a tweet that you did November 28th, and one of the reasons why… I want to learn dynamic dollar cost averaging, how I can do it with also leveraging LUNA on the way up. I don’t know if that’s possible, but that’s what I’m trying to work into the system that I’m currently using. Last year, I did about 3,000%, just stacking LUNA and LUNA and did a tweet on that. But I never, it was, it was kind of like stacking LUNA and LUNA going up and then just surviving going down. But my mindset is changing. And I’m wanting to understand, what’s the best way to kind of have capital on the side to deploy when it hits those certain metrics on the downside. So one of the tweets that you did, you have this tweet called the LUNA method, and there’s six different steps, number one is to buy LUNA, number two is to borrow off LUNA, number three is to claim your Anchor Borrow rewards, and then stake it for Psi airdrops and stake Psi, the fourth is to buy coins as they drop on a base two log scale and then 10x everything over time, get more LUNA on drops on a cubic log scale, and then have fun repeating steps one through five. So is there anything in there that you would change? Because that was several months ago. Is there any steps in there that you would change for people that are listening?

Cephii 26:29
Yeah, the one thing I changed was, if I have bLUNA in my wallet, I’m not necessarily parking it on Nexus to earn Psi tokens, because the token value had dropped. So unless I want to dollar cost average into a dropping price of Psi, I’d rather right now have the ability to use the UST coming from my bonded LUNA in my wallet if I’m not actually borrowing off of it to… So on the way up, I tend to exit out to bonded LUNA and then basically use that UST to also dollar cost averaging into LUNA in theory too, so sort of like self autocompound it. And then the other thing is now that Astroport is around, one of the things that you can do is if you get to a 1:1 bLUNA to LUNA swap rate, you can actually just swap back to LUNA at that time if you choose to do so. If you think another drop is going to happen and you’re going to have another arb opportunity, you might as well be in LUNA and then you can swap back over if you get a 2% or 3% arb. So the arbitrage thing is all just to me, gravy, and is unique to the Terra ecosystem, but is not something that necessarily you’d find… That sort of strategy doesn’t work everywhere else, right. It’s only for this particular weird dynamic.

Cephii 27:57
So for starters, let’s say for example, at $5 LUNA, I just took all of my wealth and threw it in it, right. I would actually be doing better than any fancy strategy that we can envision right now, right. But at the same time, going all in at any given price is something a person could do, but the problem is know for sure with absolution that when LUNA was at $5, that peg was maintained and all those other things would happen, right. So I didn’t go… I invested a lot. But I didn’t necessarily… I didn’t go 100% all in, selling everything I own and dumping it in there. So it’s not… And then not only that, but I still have my day job. So I still make a buck and make a living every month. So I can dollar cost average in with that also. So I think everyone’s strategy is going to be different based on how old they are, how much capital they have continuing to come in, versus if you just decided to retire, you have to manage your money very carefully, obviously. So I think it just depends, but what my thought about dollar cost averaging generally is, if you just took a certain amount and bought every day, or every month, you know how you do with your work funds, like in an IRA, right. That works because you may not have a gajillion dollars to spend next month because you only have so much coming in every month. So when people say dollar cost average, that’s just a way to prevent having to time the market and just simply buy in some every month or something like that, which is perfectly fine. What I do in that context is typically I’ll take whichever sector is doing poorly in stocks and I’ll buy that. So for example, the last five years, I think my IRA has been buying all oil and natural gas, for example. And of course now oil and natural gas is up and I got it at like 20% of the price that it is now or something like that so it’s quite a lot.

LUNAomics 30:06
That’s crazy, so when you make those decisions, because I was a trader. I actually treated the futures options on fuel and NG. But when you invest in, say natural gas or oil or whatnot, what’s your timeframe? Because if you were buying oil and natural gas five years ago, it didn’t start going up till this year. So what’s your time frame?

Cephii 30:10
In fact I’ve been buying ever since… Yeah, I’ve been buying ever since about five years ago. So yeah, it’s been basically doing really, really shitty, right. So timeframes have to be super long, I think, in the stock market to do that kind of thing. But the rewards are quite generally high, assuming what oil is used for. I know, everyone wants to go green and everything.

LUNAomics 30:57
Yeah, I think one of the things for myself just for the dollar cost averaging, the dynamic dollar cost averaging, I wanted to do it but if I’m deploying my capital, and using my LTV to buy more LUNA, then when it goes down then I don’t have any capital left to deploy against it. And one of the things I was trying with Cephii’s strategy, and I wanted to ask him, probably when he jumps back on and we get him back on, but how do you… Because if you don’t… I know he uses Anchor Borrow. And I’m assuming the only way that you can really do the logarithmic, log based scale of accumulating, is you have to keep that powder on the side and wait for those drops. And so I was just wondering how Cephii… What he would do to dollar cost average in but not use, or… I don’t know, to keep capital on the side and wait for those periods of retracement. But okay, there. Cephii is there listening? Cephii can you request… He must be having trouble with his phone.

Jaser 32:20
Yeah, I’ve also sent him an invite. So, might be his phone.

LUNAomics 32:24
Yeah. So one of the things…

Cephii 32:25
Did you lose me? Are you hearing me now? Sorry.

LUNAomics 32:27
Yeah, you dropped off. No, so yeah, we were talking about timeframe of when you do dollar cost averaging or you do buy the dip, when you were buying natural gas and oil, it was five years ago and only this year it’s been going up. So the question was, I guess, what’s your timeframe when you start buying these pullbacks at a logarithmic scale?

Cephii 32:51
Oh, okay. Yeah, I mean basically if it’s just like, income is coming in from work where I just have to park it somewhere and I’m not really going to use it anytime soon. Then I don’t really worry about timescale because even my retirement fund, I don’t really need really, personally, I’ll probably have it go to my estate or something like that at some point in the future. So I’m not really too, too worried about timescales so I can basically invest very long term which which allows you to do these kind of contra trades.

LUNAomics 33:25
How do you work it with, say, Anchor Borrow? Because when you have Anchor Borrow you have just a certain amount of money… Say you didn’t have any money outside of Anchor Borrow and your money’s deployed in LUNA, is there a way that you would dynamic dollar cost average in because to do that would almost require that you don’t access your borrowed capital until LUNA pulls back. And then I wonder how deep are you looking for a retracement in LUNA specifically, before you would start averaging in? And then why is the log cubed with LUNA and it’s squared with other underlying assets?

Cephii 34:16
You’re asking why use… Which scale to use?

LUNAomics 34:21
Yeah, ’cause you do a log cube accumulation with LUNA, but then you square your accumulation with other assets, it seems.

Cephii 34:34
So yeah, the way I look at it is this. If you have something that’s not earning yield, right, let’s say Bitcoin, and you’re not earning much yield on it, and you can earn yield on Bitcoin but it’s not 9% or whatever. But in that context, I might deploy less capital into it, I might go… So the price drops from some peak… I usually start after something drops about 20%, not from the very top, but 20% from any local top, then I start buying again. And that first buy, if I make it, let’s say $2, and it drops about 7%-10% more, and I basically eyeball it a little bit, because sometimes you’ll miss the buy, otherwise, if it looks… So sometimes I’ll guesstimate my way a little, so seven to 10% of you know, double that to like $4. And then if the price drops another 7%-10%, I’ll double it to $8, and to $16, etcetera. If it’s a yield bearing asset, or for that matter, LUNA where I can borrow off of it, then to me, it’s even more valuable when it goes down, and I want to get like even more of it. So the way I start out for discipline’s sake is, I might start $3 on the first buy, and then if 10% dropped, I buy $9, and then nine times three at $27, and $27 times three, etcetera. So you basically can be more conservative with your money, right, because you’re… When you’re saying you’re cubing it, what that saying is, is I’m really not buying it unless it really, really drops a lot. Now, the other thing too, is I feel like I have a lot of LUNA already, right. So in that context, I’m not trying to win the game all in one price movement.

Cephii 36:27
So to me, this is like… That is added on top of what I already bought, right. So it’s not like someone starting fresh who’s going, “You know what, I want max exposure to LUNA.” If that were the case, if I was starting out fresh, and I saw a drop from $103 to $43, or whatever, I would have probably gone in very heavy at $43 with a lot of fresh capital. Now keep in mind that at about $45, because the arb rate was so good, I went and moved a lot more cash into the ecosystem and not just Anchor Borrow, right. I actually increased my actual LUNA substantially by bringing capital from other things. Because once you’re at that level, then my borrow capacity is amazing, right, from those lows, when the price goes up again. So then not only can I get the arb rate, but then I can borrow at that low price too, on top of that. And so you add all that together, and you have the ability to buy quite a lot at the bottoms in a sense, right. So yeah, I’m more aggressive with LUNA at the bottoms than I am with other things is the best way to talk about that. And not only that, but I’m more aggressive with LUNA because it’s not inflationary either, right. So its potential to go much higher is better than, say for example, ATOM or Polkadot, or something like that. I mean, just look at their prices right now, how low they went from their highs and they tend to get crushed, right. So especially Polkadot got it’s butt kicked comparatively, right. [chuckles] So the intuition about inflationary coins is they will get crushed in aggressively down moves.

LUNAomics 38:12
Well, what would you say? So, like, I was explaining to the group when you got cut off that one of the things that I’ve done as far as strategy is using LUNA and its increasing value to borrow and to buy more LUNA. And you can do that on the way up, and on the way up it’s really good. But then on these retracements, it’s just kind of surviving. It’s unwinding things and surviving the drop. Is there any… What would you recommend or what would you… So one of the things that I’m trying to think through is, once we hit all time highs, we’re moving into all time highs or price discovery, to take 10% off the top and always have 10% in UST, and then deploy it at a 30% pullback. Because I took all the pullbacks from last year, averaged them out, and there was only two times that we drop below 50%, and one time that we drop below 60%. But the average retracement last year was about 35%. So if somebody every single time we made new all time highs, or while we’re in price discovery is constantly putting 10% away, then when we drop about 30%, that can be deployed and kind of have this injection of capital to prevent liquidation even if we got down to, I think the calculation was, that me and Ed Plaskow we’re doing was, it wouldn’t get liquidated until after 79%, 80% pullback. So I don’t know, do you have any thoughts around that? If your only capital is in LUNA, so I know like for me, I’m 100% in LUNA, I moved all my capital over from different sources, and that’s kind of my situation. But I was wondering what your thoughts are on that. Is it possible to do this dynamic DCA if you don’t have investments in other places and fresh capital to inject and you’re just using Anchor Borrow?

Cephii 40:24
So the way you would want to consider that is if all my money was only in LUNA, right, that’s everything I had, then I would feel much more compelled to logarithmically sell on the way up, by the way. So for example, the same principle applies.

LUNAomics 40:41
That’s what Ed Plaskow was saying in our discussion.

Cephii 40:44
Yeah, so you could technically do this on the way up. And what that means is, is like, on small moves up, you don’t actually do anything much, right? You might sell $1, here and there, etcetera. But as you go higher and higher, an argument can be made to sell larger and larger. The reason why I have not done that with LUNA in particular, is because I feel like, I don’t know, in my lifetime, I can only recognize a few of these opportunities in all of existence. So I’m not that confident about gambling with the tops. Yeah, I mean, in retrospect, it’s amazing when you sell the top, and you buy the bottom, and you’re just doing amazing. But I don’t know, I feel like it’s really hard to figure out where impulse moves end. That’s the hard part. But you what you said is right, anytime any crypto moves, let’s say 100% gain, right, like $50 to $100, the odds of having at least a 20%-30% pullback is pretty damn high, especially from psychological targets, like $100. Yeah, so if I was being smart I’d probably should have done exactly what you said, which is maybe sold 10% or 20% at that point. And then distributed that to… Save that aside, either just simply pay the loan off, right, and then you can not have to worry about your LTV, or just set it aside and buy back soon as you hit 30%. So in other words, throw it in Anchor Earn, and then just buy at 20%-30% lower and call it a day, right. You don’t have to call the very bottom, you’ve gained more LUNA all the way down, you’re fine, right.

Cephii 42:34
So yeah, I mean, you don’t need to get so complicated that you call the perfect bottom and all that. It also depends, if you sold your LUNA for the specific intent that you were going to reenter with all of it, right, then the exponential method all the way down may not make sense because what if it doesn’t go there, now you’re just sitting in cash, right. You might be better to FOMO back in your money at 30% and call it a day, even if you’re imperfect, you still are doing better than nothing, right. So the idea that somehow you’re always going to reach those extreme bottoms, the only reason you should be doing a super dynamic DCA is if you really want to be very conservative with your capital. You only have so much, and not only that, but this is not the only place you could deploy it. You could deploy it on other coins, which also dipped, right. So it depends on what you’re doing with your money. If you’re doing multiple coins, and you’re like, “You know what, I’m comfortable with a 30% dip in any coin, it doesn’t matter if it’s this particular one. Hey look, Polkadot’s down 80%, I’m going to buy… It has a decent 14% yield or something, I’m going to go ahead and get a little bit of that,” right. So in a dynamic DCA method, it actually makes more sense to have exposure to multiple investments that you like that behave like this. So you might say, “Well, maybe some BTC, maybe some LUNA, maybe ATOM,” things that aren’t going to go to zero basically, [chuckle] maybe some Osmosis, whatever it is you enjoy buying. But I think the dynamic DCA works better when you have a wider basket, because that way, let’s say I don’t catch a 50% dip on LUNA, but I might catch a 50% dip on ATOM, right. So why necessarily tie yourself down to one thing? Then let’s say you love LUNA, you can always take the yield off your atom and buy more LUNA with it or whatever. Or sell atom on the way up and buy more LUNA then. So there’s something to be said for the deep discount dip buying crypto, and how do you keep money aside to do that. And that’s, I think, worthwhile to do. [chuckle]

LUNAomics 44:53
So yeah, going back to dynamic dollar cost averaging down. It’s very clear, you can write code to how that’s done. If you could write a code for that dynamic dollar cost averaging sell on the top, or maybe not even that, but I think that’s a little bit more abstract. When would you… If you only had LUNA, and that was the only asset you had, and it was making all time highs, at what point would… What would trigger something in your head to say like, “Okay, this is a good place to take profit”? Is it at fib levels?

Cephii 45:39
Yeah so if you program it, right, if you think about it… And that’s why it’s important to think about this from the perspective of a programmer and not just, “What would I do,” from some chart. Because if it’s effective enough, it should be effective enough to code for the most part, right. It should be an emotionless machine response that just sort of takes care of it. And there’s different ways to think about that that might work, depending on how capital conservative you want to be, right. That’s the thing, the risk management is not just a question of losing money or whatever. Risk management’s about are you okay having inventory in something that is down during a bear market, or whatever. And if you’re fine with that, then you can be a more contrarian an investor that just buy more downward. And one of the ways, for example in crypto, a reasonable assertion is you just take something simple like the 200 day moving average, and basically, that becomes your time-weighted average price, which is 200 days. And you could basically start an algorithm buying daily, for example, as you go below the 200 day moving average. And you could even do the percentage… What’s the best way to say this? The farther away you are lower than the 200 day moving average, you would basically escalate the buys. And the way you could do that is, instead of having a specific level that you buy, you could do something slightly different.

Cephii 47:17
We didn’t talk about this yet. But another way to DCA is, let’s say on KuCoin, for example, you have a bot that’ll just simply by every day. You could basically start a bot today, let’s say LUNA is at $50, and you say, “I’m gonna have it buy…” You know how LUNA always dumps at 4am, or something at Eastern time, or something like that. You could say, “Well, I’m just gonna set it to 4am Eastern time every day, and it’s just gonna buy some LUNA,” right? Then what you do is, let’s say, LUNA’s price goes down to, let’s say, $45, you start another bot with a higher buy price. Again, let’s say you make that daily, right. And then, let’s say you go down to $40, you’re like, “Damn, I don’t think it’s going to go down a whole lot more than this. Maybe I’ll just throw my money in all at once now,” or something. Because if you catch a good solid 70%, or 80% drop in crypto, you probably should just buy it. That’s assuming you’re fine riding it through some sort of bear market condition. You’re okay with waiting a year or two, right. The knife catching philosophy, is that you have time on your side. If time is not on your side, and you got to go pay the rent or something with your money, don’t be doing this. [chuckle]

LUNAomics 48:33
Yeah, so what would you say on the top side? Because on the bottom side, our assumption is that LUNA is going to 10x. I’ve heard you say you have no reason to not believe that LUNA could get to $10,000 and above. I hold the same beliefs that… I’ve never seen this kind of hyper deflationary tokenomics of any coin with the same kind of value capture. I mean, it’s just made to go up.

Cephii 49:05
Yeah, this is exactly why I don’t talk about doing grid bots with LUNA. A grid bot would be where you set a range and it sells on the way up. Because I don’t want it to sell on the way up because I don’t want to miss the majority of an impulsive move or motive move, whatever you want to call that.

LUNAomics 49:24
It’s almost like the risk in LUNA is letting go of it even if it does make these huge moves to the upside because you never know when those impulse moves are going to happen. And you could just be sitting on the sidelines and lose everything as it continues going up and then lose your…

Cephii 49:42
Exactly. So if I’m gonna do some sort of grid bot, I would do maybe really, really wide range in grid, like 10% at a time and then say, “Alright, I’m going to increase the sell orders on a pro rata basis,” which means like the percentage of the sell rises as the price goes up, up, and a way. So if that’s something that you need to do, because you want to try to gamble on the idea that price will fall again, and you’ll be able to get more… For example, look at Solana, right, the thing went to $250 or something and then got crushed to $80-something, it’s like, you’re gonna feel really bad. In other words, if you’re one of those people that are going to feel really badly that, “Holy shit, I could have been Lambo rich and now I’m Corolla rich,” or whatever it is, then that’s going to be a problem for you in terms of waiting, then obviously you would have done better selling on the way up. Now, the problem is, is that that’s… Again, the problem I have with that strategy is is that it’s so easy in hindsight to think that you would have made the right decision, and you would have bought back correctly. But what would happen with Solana is you would have sold… You would have bought back at 30%. You’d have more Solana, but you’d still be down, right. So it wouldn’t have been perfect. So in retrospect, it always seems like, “Oh, I wish I did this,” and, “I wish I did that.” But that’s why I did that funny little mental exercise where I posted some random charts. And I’m like, “What do you guys think?” And based on the chart, people are coming up with, “Hey, I would buy,” and, “I would sell,” and, “I would do this,” and, “I would do that.” But the reality is, you have no idea what you’re doing based on just a simple price chart. All you see there is the price going down, for example, you don’t know when the bottom is going to hit, right.

Cephii 51:30
Early LUNA investors had no idea where the bottom was gonna be. It looked like it was going into the abyss, quite frankly, right. It looked like, “Oh my god, this is a pump and dump, it’s going to zero.” It literally looked like every other pump and dump, which is why when people throw shade on every single Terra Project as being some sort tokenomics disaster, that’s just mostly just lazy talk, to some extent. All of those things were designed to be somewhat inflationary, you really had to have a multi-year view with an idea that you believe in that team, in order to even bother investing in those things. If you just thought you’re going to get rich quick, you just never know if that’s going to happen or not, right. [chuckle] So the way I look at it is if you look at these drops in crypto, and if you can take advantage of drops across maybe four or five coins, which then reduces the likelihood that you have to be right, and more likely to get price exposure to something that really does a big dump… I bought Polkadot this last week, not because I have a massive love of the Polkadot ecosystem, it’s purely speculative, it has a high interest yield. And I’m like, “Alright, it’s done a good solid 70% correction, or whatever it was. I’ll get get a little bit here and just sort of speculate on it.” So there’s some less conviction plays that I’ll just do that just because why not? But there’s enough liquidity there, there’s enough general attention on the project, I don’t think it’s going to go to zero. So if I’m not going to buy the discounts, why am I even looking at it? That’s how I kind of think about it. You shouldn’t buy any LUNA today, if you’re not going to buy more at $20 is my take on this, right. [chuckle]

Cephii 53:16
So you could do a buy and hold type strategy, you can deploy parts of your money at different stages. At the end of the day, nobody can see the future. So whether you should go all in or whether you should dollar cost average in or some other strategy, it’s going to vary from situation to situation. What I do know is that somehow or another, I want to capitalize on the volatility of crypto. That’s a known quantity, right. You know volatility is going to happen. So how do you make a buck off of that? And I don’t mean just by long and short positions, I mean more like… Beecause there’s just too much guessing involved there, too. Is there a mathematically precise way for me to… If I was going to program a system to do this automatically… The reason I liked the rebalancer idea was if I wanted to be 50:50 in cash, and 50% LUNA, the good thing about that is you’re fairly liquid, number one, because if you’re 50% LUNA, if you had to sell that to cover, say, an LTV, you could. If you’re 50% UST, well, you can obviously cover Anchor Borrow with that, right. And the rebalancer natively autocompounds. That’s just what it does. So you’re not really losing much LUNA by doing that, if anything is similar to an LP position. And it basically accumulates more LUNA along the way which essentially meets your primary objective of accumulation. So these are the kind of tools that I think would help me in a borrow situation, but the problem is I don’t really want to send coins to KuCoin and generate a million transactions, and the reason you don’t want to do that is because I don’t want… Yeah, there’s gonna be a lot more tax liability dealing with that shenanigans, right. So that’s a really more…

LUNAomics 55:16
So that’s where we have Nexus to do all that for us so we can just buy a vault. [chuckle]

Cephii 55:21
Exactly. You want this to happen in the background like an ETF so you’re not having to pay for all that. So if I have some cash I want to deploy and I want to do it conservatively, I just want to do a 50:50 rebalancer or something, or even an 80:20, I could just let it run in the background and it’s gonna be printing LUNA with the volatility. And you could even do some variations on that, too, by the way, where you can create… Let’s say for example, when LUNA is going up, you only rebalance every, let’s say, 5%. But on the way down, you could do it every 1%. You could do actually weird variations on a traditional rebalancer, if you start playing with the math. So if you’re more interested in the upside and you don’t want to sell, you can basically modify the way those work to make them asymmetric rebalancers. So there’s some neat things you can do, depending on how bullish or bearish you are. And you could package that into special smart contract bots that you can deposit into. And then you don’t need to know anything about what I’m talking about, all you do is you just invest in the strategy.

Cephii 56:33
Another weird thing in crypto is this idea that somehow a DAO is going to somehow perform better or somehow, I just don’t get it. The whole DAO concept, you’re going to give your money to, I don’t know, who was it, Abracadabra, or whoever, and they’re gonna turn around and make you a gajillion dollars. If it was that easy to do, by the way, there’s tons of math wizards on this planet, quant freaks, that would have made you all that money in some hedge fund if that was really a thing. But those techniques don’t work. If some DAO is going to guess what my money’s going to do, I might as well just guess at that point. Your guess is as good as theirs at that point. And I don’t know, I think that idea, if you have some mathematically precise way that you enter a smart contract, and you know for sure that it’s going to buy and sell in a strategy that makes sense, based on your risk profile, right, that to me makes much more sense than to give your money to some governed DAO, right, that’s going to deploy your money doing God knows what. When I knew… I was nervous about the whole Wonderland thing. I got onto an AMA with Daniele, and I don’t know who else was talking, but they were talking about throwing essentially what amounts to a rave, like have a big event, somehow, and they were going to start going into events, and they’re going to deploy the DAO’s capital into some sort of parties and whatnot, which is fine and everything I suppose. But I’m like, “Really? This is how you’re going to deploy this money?” It still makes me wonder about whether we should deploy Terra’s money for sports, by the way, I don’t really know for sure. I’m not sure if that’s even worth it. But who knows. But when he started talking about these weird pie in the sky ideas, I was like, “What do you know how to throw a fucking rave? What are you talking about? Are you some sort of events planner now?” So in other words, he started having delusions of grandeur. And I was like, “Okay, something’s going on here.”

LUNAomics 58:46
It’s pretty crazy. I mean, in traditional finance, the whole reason why I wanted to get into buying and selling options and all of that is because I want to get away from the mutual fund managed money, traditional finance taking out all these fees to manage my funds when I can do it better myself. So you come to crypto, and then now they have these… It’s completely decentralized. And now they’re going into these DAOs, which is pretty much full circle into a crypto mutual fund management with fees that are spent on, I don’t know, whatever they wanna spend it on. It kind of doesn’t make sense. It’s like counterintuitive to what decentralized finance in the beginning is, custody of your own assets, and then responsibility and reward of your own actions.

Cephii 59:34
Yeah, I mean, think about it this way. If you just simply took a basket of half decent tech stocks, like I don’t know, an Apple, Google, Microsoft, whatever, right. And by the way, think whatever you will of those companies, they are what they are, right. But if all you ever did was simply buy every dip of every single one of those, and you did that for two years, and you just sold when you broke even. It’s pretty easy money. I don’t know what else… [chuckle] Why do I need a DAO to do that shit? Why do I need a mutual fund for this? You don’t need these people. It’s so easy that it’s basically painful. You can basically do a Martingale purchase of Apple stock and basically get rich in no time. There’s nothing to it. So it doesn’t make sense to me that… I don’t know, it just seems like there’s an over analysis to some extent, even the quantitative traders, the ones that really go too crazy with the math on this, right. And they’re doing high frequency trading, and they’re trying to eke out every little bit of volatility. And not only that, but predict future volatility, and when they’re going to be able to narrow down their grids and everything. The whole thing just reeks of just overthinking it to me. So we need the most simplest methods that a person can just intuitively understand for their time and risk profile to me. And that’s all that matters, right.

LUNAomics 1:01:00
Yeah. Well, I want to ask one last question. We’re at two hours. And Cephii, this is super awesome. Would you be willing to do this again? I have a bunch of questions, but if you give me another time that I could interview you, I thought that that was really cool.

Cephii 1:01:22
Yeah, sure, we can do another one of these things. Yeah, I know. The problem is I get accused of talking too much. But the problem is, I think to really explain why I think the way I do, there’s just a lot behind it that gets to the conclusion, right. And the problem is, is if I just simply say the final end result, without realizing how many different ways there are, for example… We haven’t covered how many good ways there are to lose money, by the way. There’s a lot of those. [chuckle] The problem is, if you haven’t been through all of those kinds of parameters and thought that through, then sometimes it makes it harder to understand why Shigeo might be talking about risk management, or the time horizons, or some of the language that we’re using to describe what it is we’re doing may not seem completely intuitive if you’re not into math or something, right. There’s a lot of things that we’re talking about that I think don’t translate to your normal day to day activities in life. And therefore, why we’re saying the things that we’re saying maybe completely falling on deaf ears to some extent, right. [chuckle]

Cephii 1:02:46
But , if someone wants to try this, as an experiment, what you… And again, I’m not trying to give you some kind of wild financial advice here, so just don’t take it as such. [chuckle] What you might want to do is take a tiny amount of pocket change, like $1 here and there, and go, “You know what, I’m just gonna see what happens if I grab some coin that I like,” or whatever, LUNA or what have you, “and I’m just gonna create a separate little project, and I’m gonna go and do this concept of every 7%-10% down, I’m gonna buy $2, $4, $8, $16, $32, $64, and $128, or whatever, all the way to whatever bottom. And I’m gonna think this through,” and then not necessarily from the standpoint of selling, but I want you to sort of just look at mathematically what happens. When you buy the bottom, the price only has to go up maybe 30%. And you’re already breaking even, right. You don’t have to be some kind of technical wizard that knows how to predict anything. You don’t have to understand the future of crypto, you don’t have to understand anything. All you have to remember is from the bottom a 30% pop, and you’re essentially more or less breaking even, right. And once you figure that out, you’re like, “Wait a minute, it’s actually really hard to lose money in life this way.” It’s essentially a perpetual money printer forever. You can retire on that, what I just told you. [chuckle] If you just simply, all you did was that, and…

LUNAomics 1:04:08
And when you have assets like LUNA and different things that are in crypto, that right now all we’re seeing is up. I mean, how can you lose money if you’re… I mean, you can lose money, you definitely can lose money. But yeah, you’re in a macro trend that’s not going to stop. I mean…

Cephii 1:04:29
Right. But even negating all of that, if people want to just think it through from just a practice strategy with a tiny amount of pocket change. You say, “Hey look, maybe I’ll try to see what happens,” and you’ll notice you’ll learn patience quickly because you’re like, “Well, it hasn’t gone down 10%, it hasn’t gone down 10% what do I do? I only invested $2 in this and now it’s going up.” It’s okay if something goes up, and you don’t have enough money in it, by the way, right. If you assume that there are other opportunities in this universe, and this is not the only thing in the world you ever have to buy, then what you realize is, “Wait a minute, okay, I don’t have to chase things that are on the way up with the possibility that maybe they’ll go down, maybe they won’t.” If I buy $10 or something, and at 10xs, and now it’s worth $100, that’s fine, too. Even if I missed the boat on something, even if I’m totally wrong, and I’ve been wrong on a lot of things, by the way. My wife told me to buy Facebook at $12. And you can see the error of my ways. She also told me to get Tesla at $20 if I recall, and I was like, “I don’t know.” [chuckle] So that was a mistake.

Cephii 1:05:39
So it’s not like you have to catch every opportunity, you just need to be right on the ones you’re right on. And the way I look at it is just thinking it through and go, wait a minute, pick something that you think is interesting, but think about how to get the discounted rate, and deploy very, very cautiously with your money and don’t go nuts. And then what will happen is, is when these things go up, and they pull a 10x, or whatever, you can do that again the next time, right. You’ll have capital later if you have either the collateral to borrow off of it, or you have the ability to sell it at some point and buy something else if you want to. But if you’re stuck, or you’re rekt, and you’re down on your position, and you just don’t have any money left, well, then now you’re just looking at the sky while everyone else is buying at the bottom and then it goes up. You’re like, “Holy shit, I missed a 10x, what did I do wrong here,” right? [chuckle] So anyway.

LUNAomics 1:06:38
Great. Last question. So closing question, and I’m not sure if you’re at liberty to answer this, but I caught in one of your Spaces that you were working with all these different protocols, helping them to develop things that are useful to you, but you also have an idea of what you would want to accomplish in the cryptocurrency space. But I never heard you elaborate on that. I’m not sure if you haven’t elaborate… Or maybe you did on a Space that I wasn’t on but are you at liberty to say what your endgame is in crypto, and what you’re thinking of deploying into the space, is it going to be in Terra only, or is it cross-chain, or what utility are you thinking of contributing to the ecosystem?

Cephii 1:07:36
I literally have no idea. [laughter] Pretty much… What pissed me off about the Bitcoin space for the last forever is the amount of FUD and the nonsense and just the sheer just bullshitting that goes on in the media and whatnot. And it irritated me to no end is, if you’ve noticed already, when it comes to modern medicine, it’s just pissing me off. And really, I’m like, “You know what, let’s just talk crypto on Twitter a little bit and see where this goes,” from the perspective of, “Let me see if I can inject a little some sort of rationality into the space somehow. And bring maybe some lessons that I’ve learned from dealing with everyone from media and God knows who else from the perspective of medical,” and look at it from the angle of, “Okay, if I can look for a few decent ways where people can deploy their LUNA and do well with it, then I think that’s going to create a network effect early on in the ecosystem that will really get us catapulting somewhere,” and don’t wait. you can’t just sit around and wait for these things to happen. It’s one thing to simply tell your friends and your family what LUNA is, it’s a slightly different thing to just get in there and just start developing ideas and theorizing them, maybe pull ideas from the real world and sort of see where some, maybe, products can get built. And now I get messages and whatnot from different groups. They’re like “Hey, what do we pay you to promote us to do something?” I’m like, “I don’t take any money, I don’t need your money. I have money. That’s not a problem.”

Cephii 1:09:32
So I don’t really want to be tied in with some protocol. This is why I don’t have a specific NFT or something like that. I’m not that interested in making money running a company or a DAO or whatever. That’s not my… If my ideas can be utilized and something cool can be built and I can park my money in it, it makes money, stuff that I would use, my intuition is that other people are gonna want it. But I don’t really need to make a bunch of money off of it, I don’t need to have a coin. I don’t need a freakin… [chuckle] I’m not about to start a project or something like that. So I’m fine with… Any ideas I have, I’ll just dump them on people, if they want to use them, they’ll use them. If they don’t, they don’t, right. But at the same time, I’m not a coder, I don’t pretend to be a programmer, right. I don’t sit here and try to judge what is or isn’t possible from that perspective. So like when I talked to, for example, the Nexus folks, I wasn’t fully sure could they actually build what I’m asking, right. So a lot of the discussion was more of the technicality of like, “Okay, do you think this is actually possible? And if so, how might you go about doing it from a coding perspective, specific to blockchain,” right, not just coding anything. Because obviously, it can be coded. It’s just question of, can it be done in blockchain accurately and with proper security and whatnot, right. So, that’s kind of how I was thinking about it with them.

Cephii 1:11:02
And part of what I like about doing that is by actually talking to actual teams, I’ve been around tech long enough to know when someone’s just fucking with me, right. I can tell if this is someone that speaks the language of finance, or speaks the language of tech, or speaks the language of coding, or something, right. I know, enough to know where someone’s just talking bullshit with me to some extent or the other. So I use that as a litmus test to say, “Okay, are these people really going to be able to build what I’m thinking about or not,” right. And I’m fine with some of these NFT projects, or whoever, if they want to just have fun on Twitter Spaces or something like that. I think it’s fun just chatting about it. And I think each time we have these things, you learn something fresh, you learn something from the game developers, you learn something from NFT people, you learn something from the finance people, it really is kind of fun, just to kind of… I think you and I are similar in that we just enjoy the learning experience to some extent, it’s not about how much money you make, necessarily. It’s just like, as long as your brain is being filled with something, it’s fun, right.

LUNAomics 1:12:17
Yeah. And one of the things that… I guess we’ll close at this is, one of the things that you were saying in one of the Spaces, you brought up the point of LUNA being kind of this decentralized community hedge fund that the assets under management of a lot of the people that are listening to this space right now, I mean, I’ll bet if we could calculate how much assets under management of just the people listening to the Space, it would be pretty large. And I was talking with my friend about the impact that your Spaces have been creating for the ecosystem, mainly because they’re super long, but they’re recorded as well. And the knowledge that you share, and different people in the space share, educates the community enough to be able to utilize these protocols in a way that instead of losing money they’re going to be making tons of money over the future. And if you combine the feature of LUNA and where it’s headed with a community that understands how to use it, and on top of that, if we have the, the culture in the Terra community of generosity and wanting to put it to good use, and whatnot, I mean, it could be a really powerful force in the future. And that’s kind of what I mapped to, and I put out Spaces or put out a tweet or… I’m trying to figure out, what’s the best way to use these protocols. I think that what you’ve contributed to this space is phenomenal, and with the recordings of everything, and anybody that’s coming into the system now, they can actually go back and listen to all this stuff, even with TerraSpaces, they’ve recorded all these things so there’s this depth of knowledge that anybody coming from another chain can just jump into and begin to learn. I think it just solidifies the future of Terra in a way that we really don’t understand. We’re a part of something so, so big that I think only in retrospect, we’ll be able to see the impact that we made. And I just want to encourage those that are out there that as you’re like learning these things, and understanding these things as you’re building wealth, jump in and contribute as well, because this ripple effect that as everybody speaks out, and everybody spreads truth and how this ecosystem can benefit others.

Cephii 1:14:55
Yeah an example of that would be like if you’re, say for example, in advertising, or you’re in pretty much any field you can imagine, really, you can just hop on to the Agora forums, the community forums, and ask questions and provide opinions. For example, I don’t know the first thing about sports advertising, I have no idea whether we should vote yes or no for the proposal, honestly. Do said it and so it’s like, “Okay, well, maybe we’ll vote yes.” But the reality is, I don’t really know if that’s the most impactful way to spend community funds, right. I don’t, I don’t know for sure. I know that, for example, yeah, Panterra’s here and I’m for a fund to kind of develop out the Terra Bites podcast, for example. So I voted yes for that, that doesn’t mean you have to do the same, but I did. And the contribution sometimes are just in the voting process. Like if you go and just make a vote, yea or nay, or whatever it is your opinion is, then that itself actually drives things forward. When nobody’s voting on the Anchor Protocol votes or whatever, then that creates a situation where those just get stuck in limbo. And then new people that want to do proposals will be discouraged, because they’re like, “Well, no one’s gonna vote on these anyway,” right. So then that’s what’s gonna happen.

Cephii 1:16:21
So you really need to kind of jump in there and be following those protocols that you follow and actually doing some of the governance votes, if you can. And then additionally, like you said, your contributions could be like, well, you know something about some field that is relevant to certain protocols, let’s say, some protocol is trying to sell real estate online, you’re like, “I don’t know, it seems like a rug pull to me.” Well then, you should make your voice heard. If you’re in real estate, then you should say something, right. You go on there, make a Twitter Spaces, interview those people and see if they’re idiots, or they’re smart, or whatever, right. So I think the contributions don’t necessarily have to be programming skills, or whatever. But the more people that are involved, the more coders that will come to the platform to build stuff, right. So it’s a self fulfilling prophecy that the community will build itself the more people that are involved, it’s as simple as that. And your contribution doesn’t have to be some kind of genius shit, it can be really… Sometimes the most mundane things are the most amazing features, or whatever. [chuckle]

LUNAomics 1:17:35
Yeah, and right now it seems like the whole Terra ecosystem is almost this black hole, we’re having all these cross-chain bridges and different things that are coming out where people can do things from other ecosystems and come into the Terra ecosystem. But a lot of the experience that I’m having in talking to people that are in Ethereum or are in these different cryptocurrencies, once they come into Terra, and they see how the user interfaces are so smooth and the transaction speeds are fast and transaction costs are low. I mean, it’s really hard to go back to paying $75 per transaction when you get used to like a $1 transaction. And the more people that are exposed to Terra, they’ll come in for the tech and stay for the tech but I think the community is such a sticking factor as well, when you can get educated and learn about stuff for free, and jump on Spaces, and TerraSpaces, and Terra Bites, and just learn, it’s a pretty amazing community.

Cephii 1:18:43
Yeah, and I’m not against necessarily people monetizing their experience or something, by the way. If people wanna do a Patreon or whatever the hell, that’s their business, right. And maybe you’ll find, some serious alpha there that no one can find you here. It’s quite possible. There’s nothing wrong with that. So it’s nothing… Not throwing shade against all of that. I’m sort of used to… In life I spent most of my life giving away information for free. And everyone else makes more money than I do kinda thing, but that’s fine. [chuckle] I’m okay with that.

LUNAomics 1:19:20
Well, thank you, Cephii. It’s been great chatting with you. Look forward to the next Space. And thanks for everybody coming out and listening. And yeah, jump in and let your voice be heard contribute to the ecosystem. And yeah, thanks a lot.

Finn 1:19:35
Thanks for checking out another episode of The Ether. That was the LUNAomics interview with Cephii. Recorded on Tuesday, February 1st 2022. This episode of The Ether is brought to you by Luart. Luart is the first gamified NFT platform built on the Terra network. Luart provides a seamless minting and trading experience all while earning you rewards just for being a user. Be sure to follow them on Twitter and join the community in Discord for the most up-to-date news and announcements regarding all the hot new NFT launches, platform upgrades, and new projects hitting the secondary marketplace. Be sure to catch Silent Solohs minting on February 7th. Are you ready to #PutYourHelmetOn and join the movement? Find out more

Finn 1:20:16
This episode of The Ether is also brought to you by WeFund. WeFund is a community crowdfunding cross-chain incubator on Terra and is the first launchpad that implements a milestone funding release system to protect investors. All money raised for projects is deposited in Anchor Protocol and is refundable and all decisions are based on community voting power. WeFund is community focused and designed to be a user friendly experience for both project creators and investors. Be sure to follow them on Twitter and join the Telegram for more information, links are in the show notes. And check them out online at TerraSpaces appreciates the support from all our sponsors. For, I’m Finn. Thanks for listening.