Transcript: Interactive Punk Podcast

Galactic Punk Taoi
Interactive Punk Podcast

Finn 0:42
Hello and welcome to The Ether. Today is Saturday, February 26th 2022. This episode of The Ether is brought to you by WeFund. WeFund is a community crowdfunding cross-chain incubator on Terra and it’s the first launchpad that implements a milestone funding release system to protect investors. All money raised for projects is deposited in Anchor Protocol and it’s refundable, and all decisions are based on community voting power. WeFund is community focused and designed to be a user friendly experience for both project creators and investors. Be sure to follow them on Twitter and join the Telegram for more information. Links are in the show notes and check them out online at This episode of The Ether is also brought to you by Luart. Luart is the first gamified NFT platform built on the Terra network. Luart provides a seamless minting and trading experience all while earning you rewards just for being a user. Be sure to follow them on Twitter and join the community in the Discord server for the most up to date news and announcements regarding all the hot new NFT launches, platform upgrades, and new projects hitting the secondary marketplace. Are you ready to #PutYourHelmetOn and join the movement? Find out more TerraSpaces appreciates the support from all our sponsors. Today on The Ether, The Interactive Punk Podcast featuring Taoi, let’s take… Hold up is that our Taoi? Is that intern field intern Taoi? The fuck is he doing with his own podcast now? Send him in my office as soon as you see him.

Rebel Defi 2:11
My sort of personal story is that my father died about five… Four years ago, sorry. And he’d worked hard all his life. And then he retired. And then he got sick. And then he died. And I just thought that taught me a lot. He was a brilliant dad. But I thought he lived his life for his family, and then never really got to sort of do this… I know he was looking forward to retirement. I’m just kind of thinking why don’t I retire now, and then if the money doesn’t last, then maybe I can go and do something else. But I think yeah, web3 is going to have so many opportunities for us.

taoi 2:49
No, for sure. And then, I got so many theories, with all of this shit for sure. And you’re right. And then even if that’s not the case, if crypto goes the way we go, right, there’s gonna be plenty of these things to run off of your validator, that’s fine.

Rebel Defi 3:11
Yeah, yeah. Are you doing some DIY there or something? Sounds like Sellotape.

taoi 3:16
Sorry, that was Velcro you picked up.

Rebel Defi 3:19
Okay, cool. Cool.

taoi 3:20
So it was a… No, I was just taking some Velcro tape off. I don’t know why I thought it wouldn’t get picked up by the mic.

Rebel Defi 3:29
Well, Finn from TerraSpaces often tells me that my… And I’ve shaved my beard off. So hopefully that’s gonna help a little bit. Still got my shitty iPhone headphones. But we’ll see. Finn, do you want to say anything? Are you… Maybe he’s busy.

taoi 3:44
He usually comes on the other account.

Rebel Defi 3:46
Okay, okay, cool. So yeah…

taoi 3:49
I know he’s probably gonna kill me for that Velcro stuff for sure.

Rebel Defi 3:52
Yeah, yeah, quite possibly. He might be able to edit that out.

taoi 3:58
He’s actually really good. I’m always impressed by all that shit that he pulls off.

Rebel Defi 4:02
Yeah, I am impressed by all his tweets, shitposting. I saw he did a nice one of smoking some weed the other day. I thought that looked like fire.

taoi 4:14
Right. [chuckle]

Rebel Defi 4:15
So yeah, man. I was quite sort of interested when you approached me about this idea of having a little chat about the Galactic DAO. So what kind of prompted that?

taoi 4:28
So I’ve kind of been working with Finn in the background a little bit because I write up usually a little summary tweet thread on some of the things that intrigued me that’s going on in the cryptoverse. And a lot of it is because I have time to just listen to it when I’m doing whatever I’m doing because he pushes them out as podcasts too. And then I’ll just come in and I’ll just dump my thoughts into a little thing and then I can push that out. It’s not a big deal. It’s optimal. But these TerraSpaces that he records are 80% of the reason why I’m up to speed with all that I know about Terra, right. And what I realized is it’s a lot of hours of listening on my end, right. And that’s kind of the motivation for those summary threads too, and then that’s kind of the motivation here is, I kind of want to do something where we can give context to people with more regard to the voting, not so much the updates and things that are being pushed out by protocols, but more focused on what is happening behind the scenes in the governance forums and stuff like that, because that’s where things… That’s where the seeds get planted for anything that you see as an update that gets pushed out as a Medium article for anything from protocols, right. A lot of it grows as a seed in the forums where things get discussed before they even reach governance votes, right. So that’s kind of my approach to this is to take all those conversations that are happening, summarize them a little bit and focus on the meat and gravy of them. But summarize them in the way that we don’t lose the context so that people can drop in, listen to this for an hour. And that gives them somewhat of an understanding of what’s going on like, “Oh, Galactic Punk is working on Proposal 3, 4, 5, Proposal 6, but Proposal 2 and 1 have passed with this kind of result,” right. And they don’t have the time to read the financial nebula, then the dev nebula, then the education nebula and so forth, right. Even I run out of time to read all those, right. So the intent is, again, just to give people context of what’s going on in those chat forums, but in a summarized way, so they can keep up with all the happenings of Terra. That’s my view of all of this.

Rebel Defi 7:06
So I mean, I’m thinking we’re gonna mostly talk about the Galactic Dao. Are you sort of considering things, sort of broadening out to just all sorts of governance?

taoi 7:20
I’m down for everything but I think it’s best we keep a focus on Galactic Punks for sure. But keep in mind, Galactic Punks is now getting more and more involved with the rest of the ecosystem, right. It is in our interest to track what is going on with GraviDAO because they’re the people behind the Lunar Assistant bot, right. So it only makes sense that we kind of track with somewhat of a keen intent to what’s going on with their governance proposal, because that Lunar Assistant bot in our Discord is a big asset.

Rebel Defi 8:04
Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. I suppose it is all connected. I mean, one thing potentially, if I’d pick a topic for us to kick off on, I can see we’ve got PVR in here as well. But one thing that kind of interested me with regard to the Galactic DAO this week was how we were all sort of caught with our pants down…

taoi 8:27
Wait, one minute. We didn’t go on your end. What is your approach to what we’re doing here? Can’t just skip on you like that.

Rebel Defi 8:36
Yeah, oh, not at all. Not at all. I mean, I love the Galactic DAO. I mean, when it started, I can’t even remember the reason. It was maybe just a bit of FOMO that I wanted to get in on this Galactic Punks mint. My history with NFT, I mean, they were the first NFTs I ever bought. I remember… Sort of slightly to go off on a tangent a little bitut I remember last summer, or I can’t remember exactly when it was, but there is a YouTube channel I used to watch, Tony from I think it’s JRNY Crypto. And one of his videos, he was talking about these monkey things that he’d bought, NFTs and he’d stayed up late one night and he got some NFTs. And again, he got these apes and they cost him half an Ethereum or something. And he was showing his Bored Apes and I just thought, “Man, what an absolute waste of money that is. What is this stuff?” And then obviously the Bored Ape Yacht Club sort of panned out the way it has, I thought, “My God, that’s crazy.” So I just start to try and learn a bit about NFTs but certainly when I bought into and I’ve jumped over, I think it was the UK LUNAtics Telegram group. Karma put a post out asking if people would join their Discord, she could maybe whitelist them for some spots. So I was fortunate enough to see Karma in that chat and to be sort of whitelisted. So I was able to pick up three at the mint. I didn’t understand the value at the time at all. And it’s just, it seems like a brilliant project, just everyone involved in it, it just seems to be getting better and better. All the contributions from the moderators, from the ambassadors, the team themselves, and then just regular punks. It’s just turning into an amazing space to be so I love… It’s one of my favorite Discords.

taoi 10:43
Oh, same man, it’s really growing on me over the last little while, and especially the productivity that comes out of this Discord, right.

Rebel Defi 10:54
Sure, yeah. And the fact when they decided we should spin up… Or when we decided we should spin up a validator, that joined the active set so quick. So I think there’s a lot of… The power of the DAO, not just the Galactic Punk DAO, or the Galactic DAO, sorry. But there’s definitely a lot of power behind it. I mean, even the total assets are maybe only like a million at the moment, it’s worth way more than that.

taoi 11:22
I think it’s much lower than that. Yeah, that’s the thing, right. I don’t think we can summarize it in just the dollar figure of what it is how much the Treasury owns, right. It’s more of the people that are working with those assets to, right.

Rebel Defi 11:40
And it’s a network and I’m beginning to see that’s one of the powers of NFTs is, we’re in the club. Yeah and a great club to be in.

taoi 11:53
For sure. Yeah.

Rebel Defi 11:55
So I mean, I’ve got topics we could start with, but you want to pick one or shall I throw something at you?

taoi 12:00
No. Before I took you on this tangent you were about to raise a topic. Yeah, go ahead.

Rebel Defi 12:05
I thought it was funny, the discussion that we had in the finance nebula, and I mean, I’ve got to hold my hands up because I was in that nebula. But there’s a lot of punks in there, but none of us is… We sort of got… Just last week, we’re like, Mars Lockdrop, what are we doing about it? And then it was like, “Guys, we’re too late.” And then we didn’t end up locking in Mars, which I don’t know, I don’t want to say it’s a mistake. But I think what the mistake was, if anything, is that we didn’t get a proposal. I mean, I know you wrote something. But it didn’t go to a vote, which I think is kind of interesting that something the size of the Galactic DAO, no one seemed to sort of have it ready to roll, have a proposal ready to roll a couple of weeks ago.

taoi 12:59
Right? No, this is actually something kind of common, and that I’ve noticed in other DAOs as well is, there’s a select few people, and you need to concentrate, idea focused groups, narrative focus groups, I’m not sure what the term is, right. So in our case, in this very specific example, I think what will resolve this from coming up again would be a handful of people that are the native residents of the finance nebula, if that makes sense too, right, and that is their job. They’re solely focused on that point of the DAO. So with that, what happens is there’s a set of people that are responsible for doing that initial discussion where you bring up, “Hey, Mars Protocol is doing this,” and they’re tracking and then these are the people that make that first connection be like, “This is an opportunity for Galactic DAO from this angle,” right. Because when you leave it to the whole herd community, right, we as a herd are never good at that sort of thing where… There’s this very human thing where we’re just like, “Okay, yeah,” that’s cool, and we’re okay with being the second person, but we’re never really that okay with, for the majority of us, to be the first person to say, “Yeah, let’s do this.” Does that make sense?

Rebel Defi 14:30
Yeah, I mean, it does. I remember when we started having the discussions, and Jian said, “Someone needs to write a proposal.” I just kind of thought I could do it but I got other stuff to do, someone will do it if it’s that important.

taoi 14:48
I read that. And I was like, “You know what, I got an hour.” This is the story. I’ll tell you the story. I was amused by it too but I read that proposal, or I read that message and I was like, “You know what, I got an hour.” I wrote it up real quick. And then I was like, “Dude, I’ve never really done a proposal for the DAO before. Can someone polish it up for me before I submit it?” And then and then my boy here, I’m gonna mess up his name so bad, Beleng44, B-E-L-E-N-G, That’s how he does it in the Discord, anyway so he’s like, “Yo, I’ve been doing this in the background too. Here’s something I’ve written up.” So we kind of just mushed ours together into one proposal. And then we put that together in the proposals channel there. And that’s how that came to be. And it was like literally just an hour’s effort on my end, and then 25 minutes of us putting it together after that. And that was it.

Rebel Defi 15:41
Cool. Listen, I’m a bit starstruck at the moment. We’ve just had someone pop in. And this was definitely a topic I was going to bring up. But if you have a look at the listeners, we go GP6299 in the building. At last count, 63 punks, and that is as an amazing collection. And they’re not… I mean, looking through the thread that was posted, they’re not just floor Punks, either. Some really, really amazing Punks. So I don’t know GP if you want to say a few words. I don’t know, if you want to reveal yourself.

taoi 16:21
Speak, speak, speak. [chuckle] I’m kidding.

Rebel Defi 16:24
You’re more than welcome to come up and say something. But I find that really inspiring, not just the fact that someone has 63 punks and counting. But it I was feeling in a bit of a funk certainly through through February, or last half of January anyway, just the way LUNA was going. I think I’m over that just now, but reading about how bullish GP is on the Punk project and LUNA in general just made me think, “Yeah, this is a long term thing. Don’t worry about price. Who cares about price right now?” So yeah, thank you very much for inspiring me, GP. Do you want to add anything on that? I take it you’ve read those tweet threads.

taoi 17:17
Actually, I have not. [chuckle]

Rebel Defi 17:19
Oh, dude, man. Go and check it out.

taoi 17:20
I came at LUNA from a completely different angle. And my story about LUNA was that I was tracking it in the background the whole time. I got into crypto the ass end of the DeFi summer. Yeah, DeFi summer, right. And then soon after that, once I got settled into crypto, Terra and UST and LUNA came on the scene. And I was like, “Oh, that’s a neat idea,” right. But then I was like… This was a phase, man. This was a phase when I was like an ETH maxi, I did one of those phases. So it was on the backburner the whole time. And then this bear market came around July last year, right. I don’t know if it’s a bear market, wherever you want to call it, that 50% drop that we had, right. And then I just had a little bit of free time. And I was dicking around on Twitter and just seeing what the sentiment was. And it was our boy Remi Tetot, I don’t know how you say his last name.

Rebel Defi 18:28

taoi 18:30
Okay, Big Boy Remy. That’s what I’m gonna call him. So he was my intro to Terra actually, that’s how I got into it. And he minted one of the Punks and I was like, “Yo, what?” And yeah, that was my introduction to Punks as well.

Rebel Defi 18:50
Did you get in on the mint or secondary market?

taoi 18:54
Secondary market, my friend. I’m not that much of a chad. I’ll admit it now.

Rebel Defi 19:01
Listen, man. That’s that’s fair play for getting it in on that. I mean, in retrospect and I think a lot of people potentially feel sort of in a similar way, I mean, I didn’t know what to look for on the secondary market, so I didn’t really… Well I think I did find out what to look for, or some of the things to look for at the end of last year, but had I known exactly what I was looking for straight after the mint, I think you could have picked up some serious bargains.

taoi 19:34
Oh, I was tracking them for a long time, the Punks. I was like, “I want one, I want one, I want one.” But at the time, my public wallet was all tied up and I was like, “Ooh, okay.” So finally, I had free LUNA and also the Punks were real cheap at the time, so I was like, “Fuck, yeah, I’ll buy one now.” I jumped on that train so fast.

Rebel Defi 20:04
Cool. I mean, towards the end of last year I got into the… Because one of the ones I minted and was a glitched one.

taoi 20:13
Ooh, okay, okay.

Rebel Defi 20:14
And then we got a special drop, which was quite nice. I didn’t understand the special drop, just looked at it and thought, “That’s just a pixelated picture. That’s rubbish.” But then when you actually look at it, it’s cool. So yeah, a picture of every single Punk in one image. So yeah, I then started looking for glitches. And I’ve picked up a couple more less than the current floor for normal Punk so I think that they were quite nice purchases. Nowhere near the sort of standard of GP’s stuff. Right, we’ve got a someone asking to come up, you’re more than welcome to come and share your comments.

taoi 20:57
So I’m gonna put a final thought in on that Mars Lockdrop. And then we can get our Mr. Listener up here for sure. So it didn’t make the voting scene for a couple of reasons. And I’m okay with basically all of the reasons because… Well, there was, A, we were trying to focus on getting quorum on Proposal 17, which was the Messier marketplace investment for the seed round, right. And B, the concern was we were going to have two live votes at the same time, and voter fatigue, and all sorts of stuff like that. But then the other major one was, we would be pushing this vote rather fast through the system. And we were kind of already cutting time down on the discussion part to begin with. So it was all of these reasons put together and we were like, “This doesn’t come across like a proper proposal.”

Rebel Defi 21:56
Yeah, we don’t wanna rush it too much. One thing about the proposals, just to extend a little bit before we bring up our speakers, the proposals have to reach quorum.

taoi 22:08

Rebel Defi 22:10
And even a “no” vote helps a proposal reach quorum, is that right?

taoi 22:17
Like an “abstain”. Yes. So if you go there, and you click “abstain”, you still come to the vote forums, and you casted your die, right.

Rebel Defi 22:26
So what happens if you are totally against something? Is it better to not vote or to vote no?

taoi 22:33
That’s an interesting game theory. That’s a very interesting game theory. Because it depends, right. So usually, what happens is if it’s a very controversial thing, everybody has their opinion, right. And that’s it. So people will come vote, and then you’ll have a big split between the yeas and the nays. And sometimes what it is, is you put together a vote and this is interesting, because you say it that way, and it is a thing where people will just not be, what is called, invested enough in it, or just the will to care, right. And the projects just don’t reach quorum. So even though it was a majority “yes”, you just… And this is the underlying point of quorums to me, right, is the “yes” to “no” ratio was very much in favor, but it still wouldn’t have established that majority of the people were… Or a good majority of the people were in favor of this, right.

Rebel Defi 23:37
So does a “no” vote help a proposal reach quorum?

taoi 23:40

Rebel Defi 23:41
Or does that push the quorum… Does that push the number of “yes” votes needed, does it push that further away?

taoi 23:49
So here’s my understanding. It’s everybody that turns up their votes, “yes”, “no”, and “abstain”, all three of those put together are what’s counted towards the quorum. And then individually, what they’re counted towards is whoever side wins. Does that make sense?

Rebel Defi 24:10
I think, but then it’s just making me think that if, say 20% of the people wanted to vote against something. And no one’s abstaining. And 80% are “yes”. If the noes thought, “Wait a minute, there’s not that many of the yeses there. If we just don’t vote, then they’re not going to reach quorum.”

taoi 24:36
So you’re saying if we have 20% of the people say “no”, 0% “abstain”, and then what did you say for the yeas?

Rebel Defi 24:44
And then it’s 80%, but it’s not 80% of the total, it’s just 80% of the people who are going to vote.

taoi 24:53
Yeah, so yeah, let’s say you have… I think a quorum these days is 600 or 700 people? I’m not sure, it’s somewhere around there. So let’s assume 500 people is the quorum, round numbers, right. So if to form a quorum you need 500 people, then you can have 250 people say yes, right. And then you can have another 200 people saying no. And then you can have 51 people say abstain, and you’ve reached 501 votes, and therefore you have quorum.

Defi Zealot 25:31
And does that pass?

taoi 25:32

Rebel Defi 25:34
So okay, so that’s my point. So say you have 400 people saying “yes”, still with the 500 quorum, nobody abstaining. And then there’s 101 people who would vote “no”. But then they’re like, “Well, there’s only 400 voting “yes”, so we don’t vote. We don’t reach quorum. And then we get what we want, even though there’s less.” Have I got a misunderstanding or is that kind of what it is?

taoi 26:01
No, no, it is true. It is true. So that’s one of the things about quorums is, right, it’s not there for… So in your example, it comes across like a little malicious undercut of governance. And sure, it can be that way. But in practice, what that comes across like is, if you put together a proposal and there isn’t enough interest from the people that want it, right, and the people that want it happen to be the minority, right. So either enough people come in and say “no”, or enough people just ignore it, right. So what that does is it takes it so that the minority cannot run away with a vote or run away with a proposal.

Rebel Defi 26:47
Oh, okay. Yeah. So you’ve got to generate enough “yes” votes basically. Generate the interest. Maybe I’m muddled. Anyway, this is…

taoi 27:01
That’s my understanding of it, I’m totally… I could be off on some tangent but I don’t know for sure.

Rebel Defi 27:08
Right. We’ve got Defi Zealot who’s first up and then we’ve got xyak. Kyak, xyak? We’ll find out. Defi Zealot, you got your comment? Maybe you can correct us about quorums.

Defi Zealot 27:21
No, yeah, I think what you guys are talking about about that makes total sense. I understand that concern. But I think it’s a very dynamic situation, right. You can’t really predict what’s going to happen. I guess if there is only a few minutes left, and you see that situation, that’s fair, right. But yeah, I think these systems are going to evolve as we have more and more DAOs, and so I don’t have much comments around that piece. I was just going to talk about the first thing that you guys talked about that really resonated for me is the summary. So I think one of you were talking about how having a summary of what’s going on that goes out in an announcement weekly, or something like that would be very helpful, because there’s a lot to take in and read and go through. Was it Taoi? Were you talking about that?

taoi 28:34
Yeah, right. And so the reason why I… And correct me if you have a different opinion on this, I’m open for it. But the reason why I didn’t prefer written form over audio form is, in audio form, the intent is when TerraSpaces records this, it gets pushed out as a podcast, right. So with the podcast, what it is, is you can listen to it on your drive to and from your work, you can listen to it while you’re cooking in the kitchen, right, what have you. You don’t have to put aside specific time of your day for it. Whereas if we were to push it out… For example, even a newsletter, right, a weekly newsletter from GP punks, right, then it’s still a specific amount of time that you have to put aside that you could be spending on something else in your day, correct? That is the only reason why I went with audio over written, if that makes sense to you.

Defi Zealot 29:37
Yeah, it does. I think there’s a solution there where it can be written and audio at the same time, if it’s a Medium post or something like that, there’s ways to also have it as audio at the same time, but the main thing is the summary part, right. There’s a lot of things that get discussed at these Spaces. And nobody has time to listen to an hour of talking to extract the gem. So I think the other thing that I noticed is that there is a tipping system that was put in place. And so, when there’s incentive like that, where, “hey, if I want to make a little bit of extra reward this week, then I can just be the person doing the summary, right. And people can sign up ahead of time. And having a format of… And you kind of just summarize the information and do that. That would be very helpful, I think, because we then will get more engagement in the votes.

Defi Zealot 30:46
And then the other piece I wanted to talk about was also the fact that, yeah, we’re missing putting anything into the Mars Lockdrop. The two thoughts that I had when you guys were talking about it is, as an investor, right, you really have to kind of pick and choose, right, you can’t go into everything, right. Even if we miss one like this, Mars is gonna be around, there’s gonna be so many different ways of investing through Mars, right. So I don’t think… Yes, we may have missed an opportunity, but I personally went in and put in a few USTs, locked up in different ranges. And by now, the number of coins I’m gonna get went down so much I was like, “Is this even worth it? Maybe I should have just locked up LUNA with this UST.” [chuckle] Because there’s long time investment, right, and you can only lock UST. And you’re kind of losing out on the exposure to LUNA then, right, if LUNA is getting to $1,000 by the end of the year, right. [chuckle] So there’s a few factors there, right, in terms of we don’t really have to try to participate in 100% of all the things that are going on in the ecosystem, and then also picking and choosin. But yeah, after listening to you guys talk about doing proposals, I’m interested as well, once in a while. It sounds like you just fill out the different criteria of building a proposal. And then do you have to run it by people? Or is it first we put it up for discussion?

taoi 32:43
So the way I did it, is that I literally went to one of the proposals that had passed, and I just copied that format, so I typed it up. And then I was like, “Okay, so these are the points that need to be covered: problem, solution, and benefits, and drawbacks,” right. Simple touching points. And then of course, you should talk about what it is that… If it’s a protocol investment, what is the protocol, right, a quick little summary of it, right. So a little bit of it will vary from proposal to proposal, right, but you can literally copy paste and then put your own words in between that format from previous proposals that you think most line up with what you got going on in your head.

Defi Zealot 33:27
That makes sense. Yeah.

taoi 33:31
And then you can reach out to one of the ambassadors and be like, “Hey, I want to put up this proposal in for discussion.” And what often what happens is it’s usually that topic is being talked about in the Finance or whatever respective Nebula, on the Discord, right. So you kind of just go with the flow. And then once it’s in that Proposals channel, then there’s a special thread and a very focused discussion on it afterwards.

Defi Zealot 33:59
That makes sense. Yeah. I’ll start looking into that, because I’d love to contribute that way as well, I not necessarily have down time all the time. But yeah, I was actually just going back listening to Rebel’s story about how you got into the NFT space. It’s very similar for me, and this is the first… I’ve tried NFTs just a little bit, like a few weeks before Galactic Punk came out on the Avalanche platform and it was… I bought a few random ones that didn’t really have much utility and got got kind of the idea around how rarity works and all of that stuff. But then this was the first one where I actually participated in the mint, even though it was during the public part, I wasn’t on the whitelist, but I minted my three Galactic Punks. And at the time, it was like half and half. I was like, “Well, this could be a crazy thing, three LUNA each, or it could be that… I think the value will stay the same or slightly above,” that was what a convincing factor for myself was, right. And we were away camping at the time, so my friends were looking at me weird because I was up at 6am trying to get these weird things called Punks. But now that there is all this utility and all that, I’m really happy the way things are going and look at it as a premier NFT in the Terra ecosystem. One of the things that I wanted to discuss with you guys about is there’s the idea of using NFTs like this, blue chip NFTs, as collateral for loans or staking and that kind of stuff. In theory, that sounds really good. But I’m wondering, what are your thoughts around how do you value it? Do you value them according to an algorithm or do you value them according to the floor? How does that part work? And I’d love to hear some discussions around that.

Rebel Defi 36:27
I would say… Rebel Defi here again, I would say that that sort of discussion is a reason to listen in to… You know there’s a Twitter Space tomorrow, a more official one from the Galactic Punk team? And as far as I’m aware, that’s what they’re gonna be talking about. And you’ve heard about the cryogenic sleep, or have you heard rumors of that?

Defi Zealot 36:56
Oh, I have not. That sounds interesting.

Rebel Defi 36:59
So yeah, I’m not 100% how it’s gonna work. But we were out in a sort of real person meeting in London a few weeks ago, and there were a few of the team there. And they started dropping hints about this Punks staking, I’m assuming it’s somehow within, I don’t know, the DAO somehow or maybe on the Galactic Punks website. And then by staking our Punks, putting them into cryogenic sleep, we may well then have more of a claim on some of the DAO investments. I don’t know how much of this is truth truth and how much it’s just my sort of interpretation of what they said.

taoi 37:41
That’s basically what I’m tracking too.

Defi Zealot 37:45
That make sense. Yeah, I was more wondering as a general, NFTs as an investment, right, in terms of that sounds like a really cool implementation of it. But I’m thinking like Levana, for example, is talking about leverage anything, or everything, right. And not only Galactic Punks, but other… Hellcats, and DystopAI, and other ones that are doing really well, I wonder if there’s going to be a general utility for blue chip NFTs where we’re going to be able to lock them up in other protocols as well and get some value out of them without selling them. But that was the discussion I was thinking about. But it sounds really cool about putting them to sleep. And already…

taoi 38:42
Rebel, did you hit the mute button on accident?

Rebel Defi 38:45
No, man. I know, Xyak’s waiting still. So we’ll get you in. Don’t worry. We’ll get you in.

taoi 38:54
Thanks for your patience. So here’s a little two, two sentence thing for you. So the it’s a matter of you throw so many things at the wall and see what sticks, right. So the biggest hurdle with NFTss as collateral is that it’s illiquid markets, and it’s much, much more volatile market than any of the token markets, right. So it’s a double sided issue or a double front issue that’s being tackled, right. So there was a thing that was launched on Ethereum a while back where it was a DAO, and all they do is they do appraisals of your NFTs. So obviously, it’s a human effort. So it’s going to be slow and limited, so it’s not an algorithm. But essentially, these guys will look over your NFT, look over the ecosystem surrounding your specific NFT that you want to use as collateral and so forth, and they’ll assign it a dollar figure, right. So that’s one approach. And then there was a couple of other approaches as well. So it’s a lot of things that are being thrown at the wall. To the best of my knowledge, I haven’t really come across a thing that has landed yet, in terms of it’s gained adoption and this is a good way to go about unlocking the value of your NFTs and using it as leverage against something else. Does that make sense?

Defi Zealot 40:18
Yeah, that does. Yeah. Thanks.

taoi 40:21
Okay. No worries. All right. Are we good for Xyak to get going here?

Rebel Defi 40:28
Yeah, thanks, Defi Zealot. That was really interesting points that you’re raising. Yep, Xyak.

Xyak 40:32
Yeah. Thanks for having me. I just had a couple of questions. I’ve been kind of just watching from the the shadows a bit, I have about… Well, I didn’t mint with the Galactic Punks, but I did double down pretty hard and bought about four or five glitched ones. And I’ve been just been watching in the shadows, kind of seeing what the DAO does and stuff because I think something really interesting is these DAOs will be kind of a case study of how future almost businesses can operate and stuff in DeFi in a way, so when I was… I guess you can correct me if I’m wrong, but what I’m understanding is the Galactic Punks, do they not have any sort of proposal or anything set up, and they just only recently started to kind of get things together? I mean, I’m just kind of curious ’cause I’m really keen to see how the Galactic Punks handles their DAO and stuff.

taoi 41:19
Rebel, you have the most history here, I think.

Rebel Defi 41:23
Yeah, well, I mean, I’m just looking at it just now, there’s 3,410 members of the Galactic DAO. And considering there’s almost 11,000 Punks, there must be some people holding Punks who are not in the DAO. Obviously, we’ve got people like GP6299 holding a ton of Punks. And I think that’s cool. But I still think there’s probably Punk holders who are not in the DAO. And I don’t know the best way to outreach to try and bring them in. But I would like to see essentially every single Punk owner in the DAO.

Xyak 42:05
Yeah, ’cause I feel like a DAO is kind of like a World of Warcraft guild. It’s just, there’s a tear down, right. Everybody reports to somebody sort of, but it’s sort of a democracy in a way too. So I’m kind of… I think everyone’s kind of keenly watching the Galactic Punks DAO to see how they navigate this space as we’re kind of like in the early stages, almost, of when Ethereum was $90, right. And that’s kind of where Terra is at where it’s just barely coming out of the womb, and it’s going to be a crazy NFT season the next couple of years, I think.

Rebel Defi 42:05
I love it. I love this bullish chat. I still do think we’re early.

taoi 42:44
Yeah, I mean… Sorry, man, go on.

Rebel Defi 42:47
No, no, no, carry on.

taoi 42:50
My point of view is if you just look back, in this short little timeframe, how much GP has accomplished, right, with the Galactic DAO, and moreover the trust that has already been built within this community, but we’re not even on-chain. right. So we’re literally just in the starting processes of moving all of our voting and everything on the chain. And we’ve accomplished so much already, we’ve gotten two seed rounds accomplished, and all sorts of other proposals along the way, right, and then the two marketplaces, and then we had the whole collab thing with Prism, and now we’re talking about using our validator to help out with the White Whale arbitrage bots. And then maybe I don’t know how the mechanism’s going to work, maybe we get some kickback as well, from those arb profits. We’ll see. So a lot of that has been accomplished, but we’re still so early in the sense that we’re on a train that’s on rails that are being put down just as we approach that point where we are about to run off the track.

Xyak 44:12
Well that’s what I was gonna say, it seems like, yeah, it’s kind of just like we’re all kind of just figuring it out as we go, even though some of us have maybe an idea, but it’s all still relatively unforeseen grounds, right. So it’s kind of just, we’re exploring boundaries, or whatever Star Trek says. [chuckle]

taoi 44:30
Yeah, no, in my brain the image is literally that. It’s like one of those cartoons where the train is going and one of the cartoon figures is laying down track just in front of the train, so it doesn’t derail. That’s like my view of the Galactic DAO.

Defi Zealot 44:45
Yeah, I would love to add in terms of the amount of achievements so far and the successes that the DAO has had, is unprecedented, I think in terms of the short time, right. The mint was late last year, right, and look at where we are at already, right. The Angel Protocol stuff that was going on, they’re the biggest donators to Angel Protocol out of any other collaborations that have happened, and then also building the, I guess, protocol owned liquidity, right, and then all of these investments that have happened even without going on chain with the DAO, right. It’s, it’s just beautiful. And I’m in full support, and it’s only up from here. If you want to get even more bullish about this, GP629 has a post on his Twitter about why they’re collecting this many Galactic Punks, and anyone reading that post is going to leave with “I need more Punks” after that.

Xyak 46:13
Yeah, that’s a great post I was using that to send any ETH heads I have that are friends in the space. It’s a great pitch slide. But I think what I’m really most interested to see is actually how they handle the portfolio of the Treasury and stuff. ‘Cause I think going forward, and this is just kind of just lofty ideas, but I just feel like LUNA is going to be a normal token to have our asset, apex asset to have on your balance sheet as a business going forward just in general, whatever you can do in DeFi and stuff it’s just going to be, I think the DAO is going to set the precedents for how companies, other DAOs, even other communities can operate in DeFi. And they’ve done a really great job from not only the working with other collaborations and stuff, so I feel like they’ve checked off every box. So I’m really curious to see how they handle the Treasury funds and the finances and the portfolio of it.

Defi Zealot 47:03
Yeah, I just wanted to say you shouldn’t look at it as “they” because we’re all in it, right. If you have Punks, then you’re part of the DAO pretty much. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So like, even your vote is part of the “we” that we’re all operating towards, right. So yeah, you’re definitely making really good points. But I think we have been in a mindset of centralized companies and stuff for so long that we look at an organization as a thing outside of ourselves, right. But the whole shift in this web3 movement, right, is to take out the middleman between interactions, and we all work together on something, right.

Rebel Defi 47:54
Yeah. WAGMI. I mean, yeah, I think it’s absolutely amazing.

Xyak 48:01
No, yeah, I agree. It’s cool to see the democratizing side of everything and seeing everybody… I think LUNA is just one of the most welcoming and empathizing communities I’ve ever seen where everybody just wants to see others succeed. It’s not the same with other chains it seems.

taoi 48:16
For sure. For sure. So are you cool with the next proposal? Oh, sorry. I thought we were moving on.

Rebel Defi 48:23
Go on, Taoi, you got something?

taoi 48:25
No, I was gonna move on to our proposal, but no, do your thing first, my guy.

Rebel Defi 48:29
I was gonna say that I appreciate what Xyak was saying about them glitches. That’s what I was saying at the start of the call, I missed out on any of this Terrerian royalty and crown Punks and the golden skulls just because I didn’t really know what I was looking for. But then it’s almost… One of the things the team and the ambassadors seemed to be saying is, a glitch is a glitch. But yeah. And I get that argument. At the same time, there’s different glitches.

Xyak 49:04
Here’s how I look, I just look at it like a misprint Jordan card or a basketball card. It shouldn’t existed, but it’s limited edition. It’s nothing wrong with it, but it’s going to be… It just has something unique about it. It’s like a Jordan misprint, really.

Rebel Defi 49:17
Sure. And so what I was thinking of is because the team were sort of saying, “Nah, nah, nah, messy pink glitch is no rarer or it’s still a glitch,” and that’s just the same as a messy brown or whatever. Almost because of that argument and this discussion kind of brought glitches up from, “Wow, these glitch things. Yeah, I’ve got one. That’s cool.” And, and people were selling glitches way cheap. So I think deal wise, I think I’ve done all right. Picking up some nice, nice deals.

Xyak 49:48
Yeah, I mean, I didn’t quite know what I was looking for either. I was just like, if it was under 130 LUNA, I just figured it was a steal of a deal. So I just got four or five and haven’t really looked back. I just feel like they’re probably gonna be 1,000 LUNA each or something.

Rebel Defi 50:04
Nuts. One thing kind of Punks… This kind of comes as far as voting and that is concerned, I mean, I don’t know what GP6299 does, but if you’ve got a wallet with a few Punks in it, you get a vote, and then if you’ve got another wallet with one Punk in it, you get a vote. I just think I can’t be bothered creating… I mean, I’ve not got that many Punks, but I’ve got a few. But I can’t be bothered creating separate wallets for every single one. But that would then allow me to vote with each Punk. I think that’s maybe something that might have to get looked at.

taoi 50:42
It’s already on the roadmap for GraviDAO with Lunar Assistant. So this is the next phase they’re rolling out is that they’re going to start taking a look at your on-chain and then directly connecting that with your Discord username, so a GP can now take his 20 odd punks and be like, “Alright, I’m gonna vote yes,” but the Lunar Assistant will say, “Oh, you have 27 Punks, therefore now you will have 27 yeses as a vote rather than just one yes.”

Rebel Defi 51:18
I stand corrected. Brilliant. Thanks, Taoi.

taoi 51:21
It’s on the roadmap. Don’t quote me on the timeline.

Rebel Defi 51:27
Yeah, sounds that that’s brilliant. I love the sound of that. Did you want to move the conversation on?

taoi 51:35
Yeah, sure. I’m done with that. So we just passed a proposal to do a seed round in Messier Art, the marketplace for NFTs. So this will be a second marketplace investment for the DAO. And this one we put $50,000 in as the investment amount, and it was a 75% yes rate. And so 20% of the tokens will be held by the DAO Treasury. And then 80% of the tokens will be distributed to the token holders, the Punk holders, I guess. And then that point passed by an 88% yes rate. So this goes back to the whole thing we were talking about staking Punks, right. And the way I’m tracking it is that these tokens are going to be invested out to Punks stakers, which is amazing, because I think that’s a really good way of going about it because instead of doing a one-point-in-time drop, because then you can… What that does is it allows people to game the system where they’ll buy a bunch of Punks, receive the drop, and then sell the bunch of Punks, right, on the other side of the coin this way, we get to the point where people are doing a time investment in Punks and receiving these underlying assets of the Treasury as their reward, right. It’s not a buy and then dump type of deal. So I’m totally in favor for it, if that’s how it goes. But again, there’s a lot more information that needs to be pushed out on this front.

Rebel Defi 53:10
100% yeah, I need to double check. Does anyone know what time the call is tomorrow?

taoi 53:15
I totally forgot. I was looking at it too.

Rebel Defi 53:19
I’m sure it must be somewhere in the forum, just gonna have to quickly… But no, I mean, I think that’s brilliant as well, because also by staking Punks, if we’ve got to then… If you’ve got to put your Punks to sleep for a year, which means they can’t be sold for… I don’t know how it’s gonna work, but can you imagine that. [coughs] Excuse me. You put your Punks to sleep for a year, and it literally cannot be sold. I mean, what’s that gonna do to the floor? So obviously, you then get your sort of vested tokens, which is brilliant. But then I think it’s a win for everyone. It’s a win for the people that want to keep your punks sort of liquid.

Xyak 53:56
Oh, wow. That’s a nice supply shock.

Defi Zealot 54:00
Yeah, exactly. I didn’t even think of that where when you have less Punks out in the market, then the price goes up, the floor goes up. I wanted to share a couple of thoughts here, when you guys were talking about the voting where if I… For example, when there is a whale that have 69 Punks, and they get 69 votes. When you were talking about that part, I was having a little bit of a moral issue with one person should get only one vote, it should… When it’s voting, it shouldn’t be attached to the number of Punks because why should whales get a bigger say, right. But then when the conversation came around to getting the returns out of the Punks, in terms of those tokens vesting or something, in that case, I was like, “Yeah, the number of Punks you hold, that makes sense to get more for more punks that you hold.” But when it comes to voting, this is how then, if someone is making a huge collection of 100 Punks, right, then they would kind of act like a whale that sways the conversations one way or another, right. Which I’m not sure if that makes sense to me.

taoi 55:31
No, I totally get you. And there is no simple way to say… One of the more common things people go through is, what is it called? I think it’s quadratic voting, maybe that’s the wrong term. I’m not quite sure. But it’s essentially if I hold 1 Punk, I get 1 vote. If I hold two 2 Punks, I get 1.75 votes. If I hold 4 punks, I get 3.5 votes. So it’s an exponential reduction in terms of the punks you hold versus the number of votes you get. So it reduces very significantly the power of the whale. But then it also… The single and the double Punk holder guy gets almost full voting power if that makes sense. So these are mechanisms, and listen, man, if these are the things that are near and dear to your heart, right, it’s a DAO. Put up a proposal, right. But then we do need to work through all the mechanisms for it too, because how do we then not punish… So, how do we then make sure that it’s fair across the board, where as somebody that has three different wallets can now split his punks up between three wallets and that’s on-chain three individuals, right. So there’s a lot that goes into these voting mechanisms as soon as we start adding to them these layers of complexity, I guess, right. But this is the whole point of a DAO.

Defi Zealot 57:02
Yeah, exactly. I would love to explore these ideas and almost have a way to decide which things are attached to a person who owns Punks versus which things are attached to the number of Punks that you own. But yeah, that’s a great conversation.

Rebel Defi 57:25
Defi Zealot, and just wondering, I’m assuming you are in the DAO, are you willing to share your… Or maybe you can DM me your name in the DAO? I’ve just been searching for Defi Zealot, but can’t find you.

Defi Zealot 57:42
Oh, yeah, that’s the name I’m under in there as well, all one word. DefiZealot.

Rebel Defi 57:47
Oh, so you are, sorry. I’m just… Spelling mistakes are my problems. Yep. Yeah, I got you. I mean, that’s one thing that Taoi’s saying as well about the DAO. Shen I first got my Punks, I just had Punks and didn’t… I wasn’t really on the Discord much. I always thought that Discord… Initially, I kind of had the feeling that Discord are just full of gm, gm, gm, and just people spamming messages to somehow think they’re gonna get on a waitlist. So I didn’t engage too much. But, I mean, just what Taoi’s saying is get involved, I love being involved in the DAO. I don’t know if I want to commit to… The ambassadors do a lot of work, it’s not just that they do a lot of work, it’s that they’re committed to doing a lot of work. I’m quite happy to sort of dip in and out and do a lot of work at times when it suits me. And then if I’m maybe not engaged for a couple of weeks, I mean, I can still vote on stuff, but I don’t have to be on the Discord all the time. And that kind of suits me. But yeah, I mean, I would just encourage anyone who’s got a Punk to definitely check out the Discord, because there’s tons of great discussion there.

taoi 59:00
Right. So I think we’re running at the end of your time block here, my dude. So are you cool if I go through couple of big points.

Rebel Defi 59:11
Yeah, yeah, go for it.

taoi 59:13
Alright, so one of the votes that happened with GraviDAO was… That’s the Lunar Assistant people, right, the bot that runs in our server. So they passed the vote where… You know that message you get when you say “display roles”, and then it shows you all the NFT roles you have across all of the servers that hold Lunar Assistant and all those NFTs, right? There just changing that to be private by default, and then it can be changed over to public later instead of being public by default. It’s a small change but it’s cool because then people with small wallets don’t feel shy and then people with big wallets retain their privacy. I mean, have you ever seen Finn ever pull one of those commands in a channel? It’s steals the whole goddamn page, right. I’m not lying to you, it’s a whole page. That reply from the bot is a whole page. Yeah. So Gridz, on the roadmap for Colonies and GraviDAO working together to put together channels on the Colonies Discord, so whatever the first word of your Gridz is, say, I think mine is intern, I have an intern Grid. So, whoever else has an intern Grid on the Colonies’ Discord, we will have our own little special chat, which is only available to people that hold that NFT, the Gridz NFT that has the first word as “intern”, and so on and so forth for all the other ones.

Rebel Defi 1:00:53

taoi 1:00:54
That’s a cool one, right. And then

Rebel Defi 1:00:57
I went for galactic.

taoi 1:00:59
Did ya? I got one too. I got a galactic one too. Hell no, man, no way I was not gonna have a galactic one, right.

Rebel Defi 1:01:07

taoi 1:01:10
So that. Oh, Mirror steering committee, it’s a bunch of dudes that are gonna put together a focus group essentially is how I look at it. And their whole intent is to… The things they’re focusing on with the Mirror Protocol is they want to improve the capital efficiency of mAssets. So they want to rejig a little bit the mechanics that go into the CDP, the collateralized debt positions there. They also want to rework the liquidation mechanisms a little bit and then how the fees are charged for when you mint and burn those mAssets. So they got some really big brands man, they schooled me for an hour straight and it was unreal.

Rebel Defi 1:01:59
Are you in that part of the Discord?

taoi 1:02:03

Rebel Defi 1:02:03
For the Mirror… ‘Cause I was about to make that exact point, man, there’s some smart dudes. I mean, I’m in that thing and I’m reading them thinking… I mean, I sort of get what they’re saying. But I’m like, “Man, to come up with that. That is big brain thinking.”

taoi 1:02:18
From big brains indeed. Good news about LUNA is that… Sorry, go on.

Rebel Defi 1:02:25
I was gonna say, Mirror is pumping. Up 27% on the day.

taoi 1:02:33
Yeah, I got two more left. Are you cool with that? Are we out of time?

Rebel Defi 1:02:37
Yeah, quick fire, quick fire.

taoi 1:02:39
Alright. Okay, so $2.7 million worth of LUNA was bought by White Whale. And that’s gonna be the seed for their LUNA vault.

Rebel Defi 1:02:50
Repeat that one.

taoi 1:02:53
Two point something, like $2.5 million worth of LUNA I think, there’s like 40,000 coins of LUNA, I think. Somewhere in that ballpark, not exact number, is what they bought over the last week. And they’re moving their WHALE-UST pool into vUST-WHALE pool. Basically, that means that when you provide liquidity, you’re exposed to the price of WHALE just the same, but then you’re not just sitting in UST, you’re sitting in vUST which is earning the Anchor interest rate plus arbitrage bonuses at the same time, while you’re supplying that as LP position.

Rebel Defi 1:03:36
You’re supplying which LP?

taoi 1:03:38
You’re supplying vUST and WHALE token.

Rebel Defi 1:03:43
Ah, okay, got ya.

taoi 1:03:45
Yeah. So that’s the pool they were gonna bring online too. So those two proposal fast for them. And Anchor is talking. I don’t think this has gone up for vote yet, maybe I’m wrong, but they’re talking ve economics, the same as Curve Wars. So the current idea is you lockup for four years, and you get 100% of the voting rights of your ANC. And each year is basically 25% of your voting rate. And you vote on emissions that are given out to collateral deposits, right. So like, if I deposit LUNA and the current vote scale, or the gauge, I guess, is the proper term, is swinging one way and it’s swinging towards LUNA. So it is more beneficial for me to deposit LUNA and collect those rewards from ANC as well and use that as my collateral, and if it swings towards bETH, then that’s more advantageous and so on and so forth. So, that’s going on in the discussions. Couple other things I was reading down the list, they were talking about… It might cause collateral concentration. So if one thing wins by a lot in the gauge, right, so there’s a bunch of rewards being pushed out to, say bETH, then it’s only favorable for everybody to switch the collateral over to bETH, and take out loans against that, right. So it concentrates collateral instead of diversifying it across multiple assets. So that’s one of the things they’re looking at. And one of the dudes was proposing an add on idea of a 1.2% bonus towards the depositors. So if you hold the ve as 10% of whatever you deposited, so let’s say you deposited $1,000, and then you hold $100 worth of veANC, then your deposit will earn an extra 2.5% interest or something. These are the kind of ideas that are bouncing around in that discussion, which is totally cool.

Rebel Defi 1:05:49
Yeah, that’s a great discussion to have. Yeah, and you can see what’s happening with Anchor price since that… I think it’s since that proposal… Not proposal, but since that discussion was opened up. But yeah, really exciting times in the Terra ecosystem. It’s been great seeing so many Punks, and so many NFT people in the call. So yeah, we should maybe do it again at some stage, Taoi, or anyone else that’s got stuff to share. I scooped that PBR has been on for the whole call, Luna Fomo, Steven… Oh, I’ve forgotten your last name, it’s not Steven Col… Was it Steven Colbert. That’s quite cool. So yeah. Thanks, guys. And yeah, we’ll catch you soon. Good night.

taoi 1:06:27
Peace out.

Rebel Defi 1:06:28
Cheers. Bye.

Finn 1:06:29
Thanks for checking out another episode of The Ether. That was the Interactive Punk Podcast featuring Taoi, with Rebel Defi. Recorded on Saturday, February 26th 2022. This episode of The Ether was brought to you by Orbital Command, a community validator on Terra dedicated to educating expanding and promoting the LUNAtic community. Take advantage of their Terra Luna Intel Report en Telegram which brings you the hottest news and updates on all things Terra each and every day. Find it using the link in the show notes. You can also support their community efforts by considering them next time you’re delegating or redelegating your LUNA. Find out more at This episode of The Ether is also brought to you by Talis. Talis Protocol is the NFT platform for independent artists on Terra. Talis helps to provide artists with the tools and resources needed to transition from traditional arts into the NFT world. With their V1 launch coming soon, Talis will be the place to see real world art reflected on Terra. Be sure to join their Telegram and follow Talis on Twitter for updates on their roadmap, validator, and other Talis news. Find your next favorite artists on TerraSpaces appreciates the support from all our sponsors. For, I’m Finn. Thanks for listening.