Transcript: How Degen Vaults Work with Stader Labs

Stader Labs
Stader Labs

Finn 0:42
Hello and welcome to The Ether. Today is Thursday, March 10th 2022. This episode of The Ether is brought to you by Talis. Talis protocol is the NFT platform for independent artists on Terra. Talis helps to provide artists with the tools and resources needed to transition from traditional arts into the NFT world. With their V1 launch coming soon, Talis will be the place to see real world art reflected on Terra. Be sure to join their Telegram and follow Talis on Twitter for updates on their roadmap, validator, and other Talis news. Find your next favorite artist on This episode of The Ether is also brought to you by Orbital Command, a community validator on Terra dedicated to educating, expanding, and promoting the LUNAtic community. Have you heard about the new Terra Invest Strategy Discord server Orbital Command spun up? If you’re looking for a chill place to chat about different LUNA stacking strategies, or looking for some alpha, or if you’re trying to find the best UST farms, or even if you just have a quick question you need answered, be sure to stop by TIS and say hi to the Orbital Command gang. Hell, I’m even in there sometimes when I’m not editing hours of Cephii spaces. You can find me in that server chatting about NFTs and answering basic Terra LUNA questions. The link to the server is in the show notes and for more information check out TerraSpaces appreciates the support from all our sponsors. Today on The Ether, How Degen Vaults Work with Stader Labs. Let’s take a listen.

Amitej 2:10
Hey, everyone. Thanks a lot for tuning in today. Hope all are doing great. And thanks for being such a great audience and such great customers and community members for Stader. We come today to this TerraSpaces with a lot of interesting news. And obviously many of the community members have been asking us about wen TGE and wen Stader token launch. I do have some news for you, but I’m happy to sort of take any questions that you might have around that, apart from giving you quick updates about some of the product development that is going on on Stader side. There are a lot of new blockchain expansion that is happening along with multiple things on the Terra expansion site with institutions as well as Degen Vault. Without further ado, I’m happy to kickstart the discussion today by giving you guys a quick update about what’s going on with Stader and what has been the team building over the last last couple of weeks since we had last met. And obviously I’ll cover a little bit around the TGE as well.

Amitej 3:34
So largely at Stader, we look at expansion from three major levers like we detailed in the Vision 2022 blog that we published earlier this week. The first one is consolidating and expanding our staking ecosystem on Terra. The way we are doing that is obviously the retail space we are expanding new products, launching many solutions like Degen Vault, Stake+. At the same time, we are also expanding the offerings to institutions by creating private staking solutions where they can very easily delegate to several validators using our smart contract. And at the same time, also being able to pick their own validators. So several such institutions are already delegating with us across their private staking contracts as well as Stake Pools. And when we look at beyond Terra, what’s happening? There are several blockchain expansions that we have announced over the last two weeks. In the next three to probably six weeks we are going to launch our solutions across multiple PoS blockchains including the likes of Solana, Fantom, Polygon as well as Hedera. Obviously, all of them… We’ll be launching all three of them in very quick succession. Our team has been actively developing those solutions pretty quickly. I think first to go live will probably be either Fantom or Hedera, followed by Solana and Polygon. All the launches should be covered probably by the middle of April. Some contracts are under audit, some are in the middle of development. But yeah, that’s the timeframe that we are targeting.

Amitej 5:43
Beyond these, we are actively working with some of the foundations across Near and several other PoS networks. Around launching liquid staking as well as simplified staking solutions or Stake Pools for them to help the blockchains decentralize. So that is the second expansion lever that we have. We’ve also been exploring the enterprise space for liquid staking derivatives. That segment seems extremely, extremely hot and ripe for disruption. Currently very untapped market out there when it comes to enterprise staking derivative solution. We’re working with several players to figure out and chart out the GTM strategies around enterprise staking derivatives . More announcements will be coming soon over the next few weeks or so. That is the third dimension of our expansion so far across Stader. I’m happy to sort of pause around the product updates and expansion update and take a few questions here at this stage before we move on to Degen Vaults. Kash seems to be here. Hey Kash, how are you? Kash is from Super DAO. He leads the efforts there. Anybody who wants to ask a question you can just request for speaker access and we’ll give you speaker access. Lots of known names. LUNAtic mint. Market analyst. Great to see all of you here today.

Kash Dhanda 7:22
Hey, thanks for calling me up. I just thought you guys are speaking to figured I had to jump in considering Stader is one of the most exciting projects I know about.

Amitej 7:29
Thanks a lot, Kash. Thanks for tuning in. How are you doing today?

Kash Dhanda 7:32
Ah, another day in crypto is another delightful day.

Amitej 7:37
Absolutely. Ahmed, do you have any questions?

Kash Dhanda 7:41
I just tuned in, because I’m very excited to hear how the Degen Vaults are gonna go.

Amitej 7:46
Awesome. I’m going to cover the Degen Vaults in a bit, Kash.

Kash Dhanda 7:50
Sounds good.

Amitej 7:51
Ahmed, do you have any question?

Ahmed Iraqi 7:54
Hi guys, can you hear me?

Amitej 7:56
Yes, I can hear you.

Ahmed Iraqi 7:57
Okay, thank you so much for having me here. And I just had one question. I am the ones who… I don’t know what the right word for that one coin is. So I’m kind of minted Stader on Coinlist and waiting for the transaction. And what’s gonna happen the next few days I think, my wallet that I gave got hacked and I don’t know what to do now to change that wallet. And I already opened a ticket and also send you a message on Twitter. And was asking if there’s anything to do to change that wallet before the hacker get also this transaction for free.

Amitej 8:57
Got it. Did you reach out to the Coinlist team?

Ahmed Iraqi 9:01
Yes, they say that they cannot change the wallets for… They cannot change it. They said that the only one who can change now is you. Sorry. I was wondering if that’s right, because it’s somehow an issue for Coinlist, not Stader, I think

Amitej 9:24
I understand. So can you please reach out to us on our tech support and ask for admin there. One of us will help you.

Ahmed Iraqi 9:35
I will, for sure. Thank you so much.

Amitej 9:39
Xuân Tú do you have any question? Is it Xuân?

Stader Labs 9:45
I think he’s unable to speak. We can go ahead.

Amitej 9:48
Okay. Awesome. So in that case, let me move ahead with the Degen Vaults related updates and I can take some more questions towards the end of the conversation. So for those of you who are joining Twitter Spaces for the first time or who have missed the updates regarding the Degen Vaults, a quick introduction to Degen Vaults, the inspiration for Degen Vaults is really one of the community members, Casey. And obviously my research about some of the risk tranching protocols on Ethereum, including Banbridge, as well as Saffron Finance. Now, obviously they are not… I don’t think they have got the same success as some of the other protocols on Ethereum, but we do think that applying similar concept here on an asset like LunaX to amplify the yields, at the same time, provide risk based solutions for the delegators is going to have a significant adoption in the market. That is the genesis of this whole idea of Degen Vaults.

Amitej 10:59
Essentially, Degen Vaults solves for three important areas. One is the discovery of yield opportunities by an average delegator or a LunaX holder. The second problem that it solves is, once the delegator discovers these strategies, he has to painfully keep track of all of them and manage his positions across the yield strategies, right? That is the second one. And the third one is now he discovered the strategy he knows how to manage it.

Amitej 11:33
Now how can he leverage the risk appetite of each of these individuals to his own advantage? That is where Degen Vaults… Those are the three main advantages of Degen Vaults and that’s what Degen Vaults bring to the table. In a nutshell, as we want, what we are going to have are one or two Degen Vaults where strategies are defined by really high quality DeFi analysts on the Terra blockchain. Some of them include the founding team of YF, the founding team of Mirror, and potentially some very active community members who will build their own strategy and apply that strategy to the vault. And in the beginning, version one, since the contracts are under audit, we will go with a capped version, where the strategy is predetermined and the LunaX is locked for a month or so. So once it is locked, obviously, the strategy will be implemented by the multisig, by putting the LunaX to use either on a leverage protocol like Edge, or on a money market… Sorry, or on a Mirror type of a protocol and take a further position based on the yield that is being generated. Obviously each of the vault will have a different kind of risk level, depending upon the individual’s preference he or she can choose that particular vault. That’s how the version one is going to be.

Amitej 13:16
Obviously, the overall vision for Degen Vaults is to create a Yearn Finance kind of a platform where anybody can propose a strategy, and if governance approves the strategy or vault can be created to execute these automated yield farming opportunities on top of LunaX. And we will start with LunaX as the only asset to begin with, and then expand it to either LunaX-UST or potentially LunaX-aUST in the future. That is how we are thinking about the overall platform of Degen Vaults, we will share… So obviously the digital worlds will go live in a couple of weeks from now, has a capped product. And we will initially have 1-2, or maybe 2-3 high quality strategies on top of LunaX that will go live and LunaX holders can come in deposit LunaX on the Degen Vaults to earn higher yield on top. So that’s a very high level explanation of Degen Vaults, happy to pause and hear any further questions or thoughts? Kash, do you have any question on Degen Vaults?

Kash Dhanda 14:36
No, I love it. I mean, as we’ve talked about before, I think it’s incredibly useful for DeFi users to be able to do everything in one place like liquid staking to actual yield farming. So I think the the ease of use on the UX makes total sense to put it all in one place. As you’re thinking about the vaults, are you guys kind of… How are you selecting what those initial strategies are going to be? I know you mentioned the partners that you’re choosing, Are you purposely using, let’s say, lower risk strategies with correspondingly lower yields. Are you trying to provide a full spectrum in these first three or four vaults? Can you just talk about how you’ve selected the initial launch strategies?

Amitej 15:12
The idea is for Stader to not have typically any strategies. Because we really want to seriously build this out as a large platform on its own. The initial strategies will be a combination of where LunaX is accepted today. For example, it could be a combination of putting LunaX as collateral on Edge, taking out either UST, or aUST, or LUNA, and using that borrowed asset to get it to a slightly higher yield farming strategy like the LUNA-USD pool yields about 50% APR today. So we take a aUST loan of 60% of LunaX and convert that aUST, half of it to LUNA and half of it to UST and put it on a LP pool that yields 50% APR.

Kash Dhanda 16:07
Got it? Got it. Super exciting. And then my second question, maybe this one is obvious considering I’m asking for it, obviously, starting in the Terra ecosystem, what are the plans for other chains?

Amitej 16:19
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So over the next four to six weeks, we probably are going to be launching on at least four more blockchains, one is the Solana first, followed by Fantom, Hedera, and Polygon.

Kash Dhanda 16:38
Okay, you know I love to hear that. That’s fantastic.

Amitej 16:42
Of course.

Coskun AKGÜL 16:43
Hello, everyone.

Amitej 16:46
Hi, Coskun.

Coskun AKGÜL 16:47
Hey, have a good night. I just want to ask you one question. When you share our Staders?

Amitej 16:55
Yeah. So that’s a question a lot of people have been asking. Trust me, we do want to actually launch the Stader token as quickly as we can. A few exchanges are doing the due diligence. And as we speak, I’m closing the contracts with those exchanges. These are the centralized exchanges. Hence, the time taken to process the application is slightly higher, unlike a decentralized exchange. So hence I request a bit of patience. With a very high probability we will do it early next week. Hey, Cephii. How are you?

Cephii 17:32
Oh, hey, guys, just hopping in after the Apollo DAO discussion. So I kind of missed what was going on so far. But carry on.

Amitej 17:41
No, we were just generally chatting about Degen Vaults. I’ve given a quick introduction to Degen Vaults for people who have missed it last time. And I’ve just opened up the floor for questions. What have you been up to, Cephii?

Cephii 17:58
I haven’t had a personal chance to utilize the vaults yet. I’m in the process…

Amitej 18:06
It’s not live yet.

Cephii 18:07
Okay. But to utilize some of these we have to basically first get some LunaX, right. Yeah, because a lot of mine was staked in the regular autocompounding pools instead of LunaX. So I’m having to make some… Shift some things around to get to that point. [chuckle]

Amitej 18:31
Gotcha. Gotcha. I understand. Otherwise, what have you been up to, Cephii?

Cephii 18:36
Oh, not too much. Just paying attention to all the different protocols and where progress is being made, looking for all the various opportunities happening? And I think as LUNA goes up, a lot of the Terra alts should sort of benefit. So hopefully, it’s not too far out before the Stader token’s listed on some DEXes so that we don’t miss out on that upswing.

Amitej 19:08
Yep. We are talking in terms of days. It’s just around the corner, should happen early next week.

Cephii 19:16
Oh, cool. Okay, sounds good.

Naresh 19:19
I have a question. Hi, Amitej.

Amitej 19:22
Hey, Naresh.

Naresh 19:23
I think you guys are doing really brilliant execution for liquid staking. I’m really excited about the Degen Vaults. It’s a very smart way to grow the use case for derivatives. I had one question, Amitej, there are lots of liquid staking protocols today and everybody’s moving quickly to different blockchains. How do you think this market is gonna evolve in the next six months? And what are some of the plans that Stader has to dominate the market per se?

Amitej 19:59
Interesting question. The way I think about the staking market is that it’s going to be worth a few trillions. So, we are actually not just a liquid staking solution, we are a lot more than that. We are building the infra for staking. If you see essentially, right, across Ether, even Terra, there is a huge opportunity for adding very high quality non-liquid staking solutions also. So we are building that enabling infrastructure across staking. Having said that, obviously, liquid staking is a market that can’t be ignored. I think what we are going ahead and building are some of these high value added products like the Degen Vaults that will help cement our position in the market as the premier liquid staking solution provider. And added to that is the faster execution that we bring to the table, right. So those are the two things that will differentiate us from the rest of the market. Obviously, as we speak we are taking these liquid staking solutions to, in fact, some of the institutional enterprise and exchange segment that has been largely ignored on the liquid staking side.

Naresh 21:22
Awesome. That’s that’s really good. Very excited about what’s to come. I’m an active user of the product, love what you’re building. Great stuff.

Amitej 21:33
Thanks, Naresh. danku is also here. Hey, danku. Anybody else? Feel free to ask for speaker access? Happy to answer any questions that you might have. danku seems to have a question. Abram, can you give danku access?

Stader Labs 21:52
Yes, yes, I’m giving them.

Amitej 21:55
Meanwhile, anybody has any questions?

Cephii 21:59
There’s a general Twitter problem that people on the speaker panels can’t hear other people on the speaker panels very well, due to robotic voice. So it’s almost like to listen properly, you have to drop back to listener which is frustrating. So something to keep in mind. Yeah, the people up here may not be able to hear very well depending on the… It’s a Twitter problem, basically.

danku_r 22:23
Hey gentlemen, I didn’t have a question. But you just said hi, so I waved back. So hi. [chuckle]

Amitej 22:34
Hey, danku. How is your strategy cooking? I know we had a chat in the morning.

danku_r 22:40
So if I’m honest, haven’t moved yet forward. Because after our call, I went to have a haircut. And then other calls. So I’m prepared now for the camera, but not in terms of strategy. But yeah, I’m looking forward to think about this. And it’s cool, right. Really looking forward to get this something cooking that hopefully everybody then can take benefit on in terms of LunaX and then putting it into the vault. Let’s see.

Cephii 23:06
danky, you’re supposed to put a hat on and then wear a robe like RyanLion and then just show up on YouTube. What’s this haircut business?

danku_r 23:19
Yeah, now that Jimmy also had this super funny tweet, I was thinking of next time I put myself down with a jacket in the next video because it’s getting everyday colder here. But it is what it is. Let’s see, I’m thinking about that.

Amitej 23:34
Amazing. Cephii, you should also think about some strategy for the Degen Vaults. So we should create a danku Vault and a Cephii Vault.

Cephii 23:45
Yeah, I’ve got to see what the… I need to look at the mechanics to see what kind of options are available in this vault creation process. So I just need to see what the actual mechanisms are to play with the ideas.

danku_r 24:04
You’re free, right? Amit, maybe you can give a little bit of a background. But what I understood this morning is basically whatever your bright mind comes up with, you can ask them to put together and I’m looking forward to. Man, this will be the maybe a race the Cephii against danku league and let’s see who’s performing better. That’s too much pressure. I don’t know if I can take that.

Amitej 24:25
It will definitely be… Have a scoreboard. And each of the strategies will kind of obviously gamified based on the returns that they’re going to be generating. It’s going to be an exciting play. But Cephii, to your question, it’s going to be a very open playing field. Obviously as LunaX gets more and more integrations across Terra ecosystem, including Sigma and potentially Mars and Anchor as well. It’s going to be a very open playing field, whatever can be done with LunaX can go into the strategy.

Cephii 25:06
Okay, great. Yeah. I’ll be looking forward to playing with the different ideas.

Amitej 25:09
Yep. I think one such thing I myself am doing is basically putting my LunaX on Edge, taking aUST at 2% or so, converting that to LUNA-UST pool, LUNA-UST, half LUNA, half UST, and farming on the LUNA UST LP at 50%.

Cephii 25:30
Yeah, that sounds pretty rational. Sounds like a good plan. Yeah, soon as I get some LunaX ready to go I can start pushing some buttons and see what happens. [chuckle]

Amitej 25:44
Yep. Awesome. Any questions, guys? Ddegen, do you have?

ddegen 25:49
Hey, man. I hope I don’t get rugged here, because I usually have an Android phone. I don’t know if y’all can hear me. But what is the first vault that’s going to be released? I read the blog post and said the first phase, they’ll just be one vault with a lock-in period. So what is that strategy going to be?

Amitej 26:08
So the actual strategy, we’re going to be announcing that soon. The strategies are going to be a few of them, we have danku here, if he comes up with a great strategy, it’ll will be featured in the first round, along with one of the early team members of Mirror and Yield Foundry DAO as well. So there’s going to be either two or three vaults in the beginning with a cap on the amount of LunaX that can be deposited in the vault. And obviously, there will be a lock-in for the LunaX for a period of mostly a month or so. And a few strategies that we have been internally discussing are, one, on the strategy that I just highlighted, two, is looping the mAssets on Mirror. The third strategy is around a aelta neutral position on Mirror.

Hutch 27:12
Hey, guys, can you hear me?

Amitej 27:14
Hi. How are you doing?

Hutch 27:17
Yeah, I’m doing great. How about you?

Amitej 27:21
Doing good, too. Thank you very much.

Hutch 27:22
Cool. Yeah. So I thought of a pretty cool strategy using Edge. I submitted it on the forum and I’m sure you guys have gotten a gazillion of them. But you take LunaX, and you post it as collateral on Edge, you obviously don’t earn a lot of interest there but at least it’s something positive. And you essentially do what the Nexus vault does where you borrow… Well, you borrow LUNA First, and during times of high arb you convert that to bLUNA or you can just borrow the bLUNA, depending on what the interest rates are. But if there’s periods of vol, then you borrow LUNA to essentially arb it very quickly to either bLUNA or to LunaX. And then you put it in the unstaking in Stader X or the burn in Anchor, and you just perpetually do that. That’s one way. And if there’s no vol, that’s what I was saying, you do what the LunaX does, you borrow bLUNA or you borrow LUNA and then swap it for bLUNA, depending on what the interest rates, and then you over collateralize on Anchor to just borrow money and put it on Earn. And when you do that, you come up with a positive arbitrage over and above the Edge rate. But at the same time, you’re also producing Anchor tokens that you can then also use to collateralize the position, to bolster your collateral on Edge. So if there’s a drop in price, which we actually want, because that’ll produce high volatility, to be able to get some arbs along the way. But the in-between times where you’re just borrowing either bLUNA or LUNA to arb, so that you can post it on Anchor, your DCA-ing into Anchor tokens, and you can also just redeposit that on Edge to bolster your collateral.

Hutch 29:18
So it’s kind of a two part, it’s kind of a two-in-one strategy. When there’s no volatility, you essentially just do what the Nexus bLUNA vault or nLUNA vault does. But you do it directly on Anchor, so you get those Anchor tokens, which can help bolster your collateral on Edge. And then when there’s volatility, you actually want to borrow as much LUNA as you can to get the free arb and then just go ahead and burn that, and for instance, if you got a 2% arb once a month, that equals a very, very high rate of return and I know everybody’s had charts and stuff to show that. But that’s kind of the idea, it’s the arb vault, but at least you have something you can do while you’re waiting, just getting the bLUNA, depositing it into Anchor and getting that positive arbitrage which generates another token that can allow you to have more collateral.

Amitej 30:16
Oh, that’s amazing. Really a very interesting strategy.

Hutch 30:20
This one… I thought of another one, it’s a little risky. It just involves an element of market timing, which may be hard. With the other one, you can tie into the Arbie bot, and just to find the optimal time to do the arbs and essentially just be DCA-ing into arbs when the Arbie bot tells you what the best place to do it is. And you constantly have stuff going through burn and unlocking to where you can keep doing it. The other one I had, since aUST, like you said, is cheap to borrow, I mean, obviously, the aUST token is compounding and you have to pay it back in aUST which is not ideal, but at least it’s a cheap asset to borrow, usually around 2%. And during periods of really, really high volatility, you don’t really care about short term, whatever aUST accruing against you, if you can post it as a bid on Kujira, so you could ladder bids on Kujira during times of high volatility. And in the strategy, I say it’s risky, because you’re essentially betting on a bounce, you’re betting on a bounce. But if you get some liquidated bids by laddering them on Kujira, then essentially once LUNA does bounce then you would pay back the UST and then you would keep the extra. Little tougher to do but I think it could be done if you kind of do this Cephii dollar cost average exponentially on the way down by staggering your bids in that way to where they kind of get deeper, the more premium you’re bidding on. And then it would entail that you have enough collateral to go ahead and fade the total dip, but then eventually once it bounces then you can kind of DCA pay back the aUST loan if that makes sense.

Amitej 32:14
Absolutely. It’s pretty amazing.

Hutch 32:17

Amitej 32:18
What what are the other things that we could do with aUST? Obviously, I chose a very conservative strategy. But what are the other things beyond the Kujira strategy that you’ve explained?

Hutch 32:30
Mirror, I mean, you talked about a Mirror looping strategy with LunaX, which is cool, but a lot of people like to do the looping where they essentially instead of posting LunaX, which acts more like a stock, to do it with aUST which acts more like a super high yielding bond, it’s just a little more stable. I’ve talked to Mirror about getting some features that trade more hours, and also to almost set up like KuCoin features to where you can go in either direction. So assuming there was a suite of high volume mAssets, that were different asset classes, like always not correlated to stocks, like gold and oil, and… I like gold, oil, NASDAQ, S&P, then you can essentially kind of rotate your position at all times with the looping via LunaX, or aUST, or both, maybe the first loop you get LunaX, but then every time you loop LunaX after that, the strategy becomes more volatile. So maybe you only do one loop with LunaX, and then the future loops you use with aUST to kind of soften the volatility and produce some yield.

Amitej 33:51
Awesome. Have you taken into account the Mirror minting fees? That kind of eats to the returns.

Hutch 33:59
Yeah, you’re right. It’s 1.5%, but the Mirror is a long term strategy. I posted a video about… Because everybody was using silver, and I posted a video on New Year’s Eve about doing it against the S&P and it seems like other people seem to like that idea. And I actually did it during that time. So it was only a three week trade for me because LUNA was crashing so much and I needed to get my aUST out of there to manage my Anchor loan. But if the trade doesn’t go in your direction, it’s a long term trade. So essentially, it’s 19.5% however many times you loop it, minus 1.5 is not that big of a deal. And if it’s a short term trade like it was for me, it was only three weeks, my aUST didn’t have a lot of time to compound for me. But it didn’t matter because the trade went in my direction. So I laddered into it. I DCA-ed into it so I made between 10% and 15% on the trade. So if I make 10% and 15% in three weeks, I don’t really care if I have to pay 1.5, right.

Amitej 35:09
Of course, of course.

Hutch 34:00
Ideally you want time. When you’re using aUST, or even LunaX, time is really on your side, you don’t really want to win that trade quickly. But if you do, shit, take it.

Amitej 35:16
Totally makes sense.

Cephii 35:24
I would mention, Amit, you’re asking about aUST, there is the aUST-LUNA vaults also on Loop Finance. I haven’t really used it so I can’t comment in terms of how effective the mechanics on that vault… Not vault, but the LP. I haven’t used that LP personally to really flesh out the mechanics, but it seems like a reasonable use of aUST.

Amitej 35:48
Yeah, it has about 58% APY. But the liquidity on that is very low.

Cephii 35:55
Yeah, one other piece of the puzzle here is there’s a proposal on Astroport so you’ve got your LUNA-bLUNA pair on Astroport. And there’s a proposal that’s most likely going to pass where Astroport will allow you to claim your bLUNA UST rewards while it’s sitting in the LP. I don’t know if that’s going to be an autocompounder or whether that’s going to be something you claim. But there may be some interesting possible permutations of that situation.

Amitej 36:29
Yep, that’s a 4%-5% extra yield.

Cephii 36:35
Yeah, exactly.

Amitej 36:37
I think the… Sorry, go ahead.

Cephii 36:42
No, I was gonna say we there may be some interesting opportunities there down the line to do like maybe a LunaX-bLUNA pairing that takes advantages of both sides of the pairs accomplishing some rebalancer effect, but also accomplishing some yield accumulation on both sides. I don’t know if it makes sense to do that in terms of… Is there enough volume to justify a LunaX-bLUNA pairing, that’s a different question. But it might work well in a rebalancer bot type situation.

Amitej 37:24
Yep. Absolutely. Any other suggestions or questions, guys? Cephii and… I don’t know how to pronounce your name, is it Hutch? We would love to do a call and sort of figure out if you want to do a strategy vault when the Degen Vault goes live?

Cephii 37:43
Yeah, we can work on something.

Hutch 37:45
It is Hutch.

Amitej 37:47
Amazing. Hutch, right? Okay.

Hutch 37:49

Amitej 37:50
Awesome. Any other questions, guys?

ddegen 37:53
Yeah, Amit. Did your team think about any strategies with flash loans? Because I know White Whale announced yesterday that they’re allowing flash loans. I don’t know if there’s an arbitrage play, kind of like what Hutch and Cephii were talking about to maximize yield there. But I’m not sure if that’s something you have discussed.

Amitej 38:13
Yeah, I think we’ve been thinking about flash loans as a strategy. As interesting as they sound, they are obviously some of the most attacked areas across the other blockchains. We would definitely love to introduce yield strategies with flash loans after a few iterations of the Degen Vaults for sure, but not at the beginning.

ddegen 38:40
That’s it.

Hutch 38:41
On another note, this may open up because we were talking about Mirror, I know the Mirror steering committee has formed and they’re really doing their best to save private Mirror, as they say, or just basically revitalize and revamp it. And one of their major action items is to get a better liquidation cue and that’ll help with the premiums and the volatility on Mirror, and I believe they’re interested in working with Team Kujira to actually have LunaX liquidation que. So I think… I don’t know how that can play into one of the strategies I was talking about instead of beating on bLUNA, you can also get on LunaX as well. Should be cool.

Amitej 39:31
Yeah, absolutely. I’ve seen that strategy. I’ve been talking to some of the members of the steering committee. Definitely, it’s a move in the positive direction.

Hutch 39:40
Absolutely. The more… I mean, you guys are a staple protocol on Terra, as is obviously Mirror is one of the OGs, and Kujira is becoming a separate protocol. So the more synergy between them, it just benefits the whole ecosystem.

Amitej 39:53
Yep, totally makes sense.

Coskun AKGÜL 39:55
It’s a great project guys. I’m so believe this project and let’s go to the moon together. I have, sir.

Amitej 40:02
Thank you. Thank you very much.

Coskun AKGÜL 40:04
You’re welcome. I appreciate it.

Amitej 40:07
Any other questions, guys? I can take a couple more questions.

Stader Labs 40:12
Yeah, we can take two more questions and we can wrap.

Shuvam Agarwal 40:15
Hi, I actually had a question which isn’t really related to Degen Vaults, but I wanted to understand how the team is thinking about the utility of the Stader token itself going ahead. So I wanted some views, are we introducing anything or is anything planned to increase the utility of the token itself?

Amitej 40:38
100%. The Stader token will have 4 major utilities, 3 in the public domain. The first utility is obviously staking and all the liquidity provision for the Stader token, which is a more common use case. The second utility is where the validators who are part of the Stader pools, be it Stake Pools, or Liquid Staking, or Stake+, they will have to take a minimum amount of Stader tokens to receive delegations and use our infrastructure. Obviously, the Stake Pools and the LunaX pool, there the validators receive delegations in the proportion of their staked SD tokens. So SD token is going to have an xSD model, and in the next iteration, vxSD model as well. So xSD is going to be an autocompounding token like LunaX, where the staking rewards are autocompounded. So when the validators actually stake, they get preferential delegations from the stakers. Now the additional advantage or additional utility for the SD tokens that we are adding is as a delegator, as just an SD token holder, you can actually delegate Stader tokens on behalf of any validator. Let’s say you are a big fan of Smart Stake. As an SD token holder, you want a lot more delegation to flow to Smart Stake, you can actually stake SD tokens on behalf of Smart Stake validator, or you can do that for Orbital Command. You can do that for any of Airdrops validator. That’s the second utility that we have for the Stader token. A third utility is for the governance aspects, be it creating criteria for validator selection, pools expansion, all of these are going to be determined by the governance holders of Stader token.

Amitej 42:39
So these are the three major utilities in the public domain. Obviously, if we go to the enterprise domain, all the revenues are going to be accrued to Stader Treasury, and a portion of the protocol revenues will flow into the stakers, Stader token stakers. Does it clarify your question?

Shuvam Agarwal 42:57
Yes, it does. Thanks a lot, Amitej. Thank you.

Amitej 43:00
Thanks, Shuvam. I know… by the way.

Shuvam Agarwal 43:05
Oh, really, how do you know him?

Amitej 43:08
Aclose friend of mine is one of the founders.

Shuvam Agarwal 43:12
Suresh or…

Amitej 43:13

Shuvam Agarwal 43:15
Oh, yeah. Amazing.

Amitej 43:19
Awesome. Thanks for tuning in. Any other questions, guys? We can take one last question.

Coskun AKGÜL 43:25
It will be released on also? It can be possible for feature my friends?

Amitej 43:34
Sorry, can you repeat your question?

Coskun AKGÜL 43:36
It will list on

Amitej 43:39
Sorry, is your question will Stader list on

Coskun AKGÜL 43:43
Yeah, it will be list on Stader, on You know

Amitej 43:48
Yeah, I’m familiar So that’s confidential information. We will announce it all together.

Coskun AKGÜL 43:58
Yeah, okay. Okay, my friends.

Amitej 44:00
Okay, guys, that thanks a lot. If there are no questions, thanks a lot for tuning in, all of you. As always, you’ve been amazing community members and supporters of Stader platform. Would love to have these AMAs more often, maybe once a week or so. Look forward to next conversation again. Thanks, everyone for tuning in today. Have a nice weekend. Bye bye.

Finn 44:31
Thanks for checking out another episode of The Ether. That was How Degen Vaults Work with Stader Labs. Recorded on Thursday, March 10th 2022. This episode of The Ether was brought to you by Luart. Luart is the first gamified NFT platform built on the Terra network. Luart provides a seamless minting and trading experience all while earning you rewards just for being a user. Be sure to follow them on Twitter and join the community in the Discord server for the most up to date news and announcements regarding all the hot new NFT launches, platform upgrades, and new projects hitting the secondary marketplace. Are you ready to #PutYourHelmetOn and join the movement? Find out more at This episode of The Ether was also brought to you by WeFund. WeFund is a community crowdfunding cross-chain incubator on Terra and it’s the first launchpad that implements a milestone funding release system to protect investors. All money raised for projects is deposited in Anchor Protocol and it’s refundable, and all decisions are based on community voting power. WeFund is community focused and designed to be a user friendly experience for both project creators and investors. Be sure to follow them on Twitter and join the Telegram for more information. Links are in the show notes and check them out online at This episode of The Ether was also brought to you by Glow Yield. Glow Yield is the ecosystem of Terra decentralized apps like Lotto and Creators all powered by DeFi yields. Glow Creators helps artists and influencers give their fans exclusive perks through membership NFTs and more. Glow Lotto is a price link savings account with a weekly chance to win the big jackpot. Tickets are free and perpetual which means there’s zero chance to lose money. Be sure to follow Glow Yield on Twitter and join the Discord community to stay up to date with all the glowing projects and check them out online at TerraSpaces appreciates the support from all our sponsors. For, I’m Finn. Thanks for listening.