Transcript: Governance Gang with Taoi and Rebel DeFi

Intern Field Reporter Taoi
Governance Gang

Finn 0:42
Hello and welcome to The Ether. Today is Saturday, March 5th 2022. This episode of The Ether is brought to you by Luart. Luart is the first gamified NFT platform built on the Terra network. Luart provides a seamless minting and trading experience all while earning you rewards just for being a user. Be sure to follow them on Twitter and join the community in the Discord server for the most up to date news and announcements regarding all the hot new NFT launches, platform upgrades, and new projects hitting the secondary marketplace. Are you ready #PutYourHelmetOn and join the movement? Find out more This episode of The Ether is also brought to you by WeFund. WeFund is a community crowdfunding cross-chain incubator on Terra and it’s the first launchpad that implements a milestone funding release system to protect investors. All money raised for projects is deposited in Anchor Protocol and it’s refundable, and all decisions are based on community voting power. WeFund is community focused and designed to be a user friendly experience for both project creators and investors. Be sure to follow them on Twitter and join the Telegram for more information. Links are in the show notes and check them out online at TerraSpaces appreciates the support from all our sponsors. Today on The Ether, The Governance Gang hosted by Taoi and Rebel Defi. Let’s take a listen.

Rebel Defi 2:01
Ay, Finn’s here as well. Finn, do you ever… Maybe you can smash emojis, I don’t know, but do you ever want to talk when you’re up? I’ve actually been listening to some of your podcasts. Man, you are a man of many talents. And they’re obviously pretty dope, the ones I’ve heard anyway.

taoi 2:18
All right, I think I got it to work.

Rebel Defi 2:21
There you go. I can you hear you know, Taoi.

taoi 2:23
How are you, my dude?

Rebel Defi 2:24
Yeah, man, doing good. I was a bit tired, so I had a little afternoon kip. It’s now 6pm, or just coming up to 6pm in the UK. So yeah, feeling good. How about yourself, is it lunchtime with you?

taoi 2:37
It’s exactly 12 o’clock. Yeah.

Rebel Defi 2:39

taoi 2:39
It’s okay. It’s a Saturday. It’s a lazy Saturday. So I did a little bit of a breakfast and that was it.

Rebel Defi 2:47
Nice, nice. I’m just thinking Finn might have words to say, I don’t know if that’s my mic or yours. But I’m hearing something.

taoi 2:53
Okay, that’s probably my mic.

Rebel Defi 2:54
Keep in mind from not touching any…

Saina 2:56
[chuckle] I hear you. I don’t know why, I think this mic in specific is a little too sensitive.

Rebel Defi 3:07
Right, so it’s maybe just picking up breathing or something.

taoi 3:13
[chuckle] Yeah, that could be it.

Rebel Defi 3:16
So you… Yeah, maybe we’ll just kick off at official time, in the next minute or so. We’ll see if anyone drops in, we’ve got… Oh, wow, the Galactic DAO. We are honored. Yeah, just chatting with a few guys on the Galactic Punks Discord, seems to be a bit of excitement over there today, which we can maybe get into. But yeah, six o’clock. You’ve got your boy Rebel Defi with Taoi, here just to chat a little bit, not just about Punks today, although we are deep into Punks ourselves, but maybe branch out and talk about governance across the Terraverse. So yeah, Taoi, you want to kick it off? What sort of governance have you been noticing this week?

taoi 4:01
No, I want you to kick it off. Actually you got me excited, what’s going on with the Discord, and fill me in on that part?

Rebel Defi 4:09
Sure. Well, I see Jo’s in there as well. She did a real nice write up recently. I think she did it maybe a week ago. But it only came across my Twitter feed a couple of days ago so I retweeted that, but that was really nice. But yeah, just today in the last… Let me pull it up. TASA put out an announcement just to say that the audit for the staking contract is apparently going to be going ahead within a couple of weeks. And I remember last… I think it was last Sunday we had the Punks AMA, that was kind of one of the concerns I had with staking Punks. Imagine this thing goes wrong, and somehow, something happens and then 2,000 Punks end up getting nabbed off to some wallet or something like that. In my eyes that would destroy the project.

taoi 5:08
I totally hear you.

Rebel Defi 5:10
I think it’s… And it was funny what Jack said, he was like, “Yeah, well, none of the NFT contracts are audited.” I was like, “Whoa.” [chuckle] But yeah, Tessa was just saying even all the contracts seems to work and we could start now, for the sake of another couple of weeks, why don’t we just wait? I mean, no one’s really missing out on anything at the moment.

taoi 5:33
It’s really only two weeks on that announcement. So it’s not that big of a deal. The way I read that… I quickly read the announcement, maybe I missed the detail, but essentially, it’s two weeks, and then we should be good to go for the launch.

Rebel Defi 5:45
Exactly. So I mean, that’s just…

taoi 5:49
Right, and is the audit occurring in parallel with the launch? Or we are for sure doing the audit first and then launch?

Rebel Defi 5:59
Well, I mean, I can’t speak for TASA. But the way I’m reading it, it looks like the guys from SCV… I’ve forgotten the guy’s name, but he’s on Twitter a lot, which, I mean, I think that’s brilliant that we’re getting them to do it. If they can just run through it, and hopefully give us the all clear, then I just think that’s another… I mean, if no one else on Terra’s got audited contracts for NFTs, and the Punks are the first one to get something audited, that just solidifies our place as the blue chip NFT project in my eyes. Obviously, I’m biased.

taoi 6:36
It does, for sure.

Rebel Defi 6:38
That’s kind of how I see it.

taoi 6:39
Not only that, it’s… Yeah, right. So the way I look at it is, even though you’re contracted, you’re still… There could still be a glitch, an error, or a bug in the code, right. It’s all still… There’s that room for human error, right. So that’s always gonna be there, but it’s just… What it is, is it’s the comfort of having one more check in the box, right. That’s my view of it.

Rebel Defi 7:09
Yeah. I’m 100% glad that this has been taken well. Okay, Karma’s here. Man, I’m get starstruck, we’ve got Jo and Karma in this call, my God. [chuckle]

taoi 7:20
She said she was gonna show up.

Karma 7:22
I really didn’t want to interrupt. But I think I can just provide some more insight, from the team side, when it comes to this Punk Staking contract and audit. So basically, our reasoning originally was that, “Okay, we live in the decentralized space, everybody should be able to assess their own risks. So let’s release a beta, which is unaudited, like the rest of Terra NFT space, and just let people decide themselves if they want to risk using it.” But this decision was taken on the grounds of basically, normally, you have to wait months for an audit. But because we were lucky enough to find an audit… Basically a slot that could provide us with an audited contract within two weeks, maybe, we thought to ourselves, “Well, this changes the situation.” If two weeks is all we have to wait for for an audit, to be the first NFT staking audited contract on Terra, we just feel like it would make no sense to release an unaudited beta first, with two weeks to go. It just makes so much more sense to just wait and release with this additional level of security. I hope you would all agree.

taoi 8:44
Absolutely. The one point that I wanted to bring up but it was… You guys needed to get so much through on the AMA last time, right, was that it kind of does… The original approach where it’s like a decentralized place, you should be able to assess your own risk, it’s all good that way. But the thing was, so the Punks that bought in to the investment, you made the vote, and you made the vote for the investment of, say Luart, to be distributed back to the punk holders, right. So now you were kind of going to be penalized a little bit for not taking on the risk of depositing your Punk in the staking contract and then getting back the reward of the distribution of the Luart tokens, right. Simply because you weren’t willing to take on the risk of depositing Punks in an audited contract, right. That was the only point I was gonna bring out that day.

Karma 9:44
Yeah, and fair enough. That’s another argument to actually wait for the audited contract. And now let’s be clear, no audit provides 100% security. There are audited contracts out there where afterwards people did come up with breaches or whatever. So nothing ever gives us 100% security. But I feel like having that additional audit does provide some, if it exists at all. And yeah, like you’re saying, right now we all know the Luart TGE has already happened. But that just means that we are accumulating these tokens, we have actually staked on Luart website all the tokens that we have gotten, this is single asset staking, there isn’t any risk of impermanent loss, we’re actually just accumulating, awaiting the moment when we can distribute them. So actually, everybody will be getting more tokens and the distribution will be more fair, because people will be able to assess that risk a bit better.

Rebel Defi 10:52
Yeah, I mean, that’s music to my ears. I think it’s just worked out perfectly for everyone concerned like those who just wanted to start staking, it’s couple of weeks, and those of us who wanted to wait for an audit, we’re not waiting six months, because I can see why the majority might be against waiting that length of time to start staking. But I totally agree with Taoi. I mean, there were certain Punks… I mean, I’ve got… I haven’t got that many but I’ve got a couple. There were certain Punks I wasn’t going to stake because maybe just paranoia that something negative might happen. And but as you said, so one’s gonna get penalized.

taoi 11:31
Right. Yeah. The cost of opportunity there, right, for not taking on the risk. The only point was it was a little unfair, but it’s a moot point now. We’re doing audits, and then we’re moving forward with the launch for sure. Hungergainz, what’s up, man? You got a point to add, a point to ask?

hungergainz 11:48
Oh, hi. Although I’m not too familiar with the landscape, would that audit set precedents for our ecosystem or industry as a whole? What do you guys think? What’s your take on that?

taoi 12:00
Yeah, no, I think it does. I’d like to hear Karma’s view on this for sure. But as you said, Rebel Defi, right, that this would make Galactic Punks one of the first people to be doing audits on their governance proposals and… Not governance contract, the staking contracts, or the deposit contracts for your Punks, right. Which is a step ahead of the marketplaces, because to put your Punk up for sale when you deposit there with Random Earth, that’s not audited, right.

hungergainz 12:34
Sorry, I’m just… Which means for any other projects that do not go through this process might be penalized in the eyes of the community, as in, not well received? What do you guys think?

Karma 12:49
Yeah, so maybe I will just speak a little bit about that. I personally, I am very, very surprised that all the marketplaces on Terra still remain unaudited despite months having passed. I do have a little understanding because as we all know audit slots are incredibly difficult to come by. But I feel like we have arrived at this point within Terra NFT history where at least one of the marketplaces should have had an audit. And there isn’t that much difference between NFT staking and selling on a marketplace. Because all you’re doing from a smart contract side is you’re binding your NFT, this token, into a contract. In case of marketplaces, this is an escrow contract that holds your NFT until someone decides to sell it and then it’s swapped. And then the point of NFT staking, you’re just basically binding it in their contract and you receive tokens or whichever rewards against it. So I do feel like we should have had it already in some way, shape, or form, but we don’t. We will strive to be the first one. If anybody gets there before us, great, the more security the better. And I genuinely hope that we will see more audited infrastructure for NFTs very, very soon because we’re just so very early. Yeah, guys, I truly hope that this will set a precedent in a good way.

Rebel Defi 14:25
100%. I mean, I still have to just pinch myself, and when I realized that the mint for Galactic Punks was four months ago. It feels like punks have been part of my life for so long, yet in reality it’s still such a new project. So I’m just so excited for what’s going to happen.

taoi 14:51

Rebel Defi 14:52
Sorry, you wanna comment…

taoi 14:52
Sorry. Go on my friend. That’s okay.

Rebel Defi 14:55
I was going to sort of change the topic. So if you want to come back on this, now’s the time.

taoi 14:59
No, I was just gonna add to your thing and simply say that Punks as a whole have been building at lightning speed for sure. But that’s all I was gonna say. Go ahead.

Rebel Defi 15:11
Yeah, I mean, I’m just thinking of proposals going through my mind right now.

taoi 15:19
Oh, I got one for you. There’s a Terra proposal going on for… I forget the name of… Excalibur, Excalibur Exchange. It’s a Fantom based project, but they’re requesting UST so… They’re requesting a partnership with LUNA. And essentially what it is, is the Excalibur Exchange is a neat little setup for sustainability through tokenomics. They’re setting up sort of a distribution back to token holders of the rewards and the protocol revenues. And they want to make UST the core stablecoin of their exchange, right. So what they’re doing is from their end, if the proposal goes through, right, they’ll provide UST as the base stablecoin pair, and they’ll give maximum incentives that they can towards UST pairs, and they’ll reduce fees as much as they can towards UST pairs. So UST will be the best way for you to do any sort of a stablecoin swap on their exchange. And then basically in return, it’ll be a $250,000 worth of an investment in terms of token rewards… Or sorry, incentivization rewards over the coming three months. And they’re requesting that we also do co-marketing, right. So their team comes over to a couple of the AMAs in the protocol… Or in the Terra ecosystem side and stuff like that. But the reason I bring it up is because it’s a Terra proposal. And we run a Terra validator as the Galactic DAO. So we got to decide which way we vote on it.

Rebel Defi 17:06
So what, this proposal is up already? Is that…

taoi 17:09
Yeah, there’s I think two or three days remaining. And as far as I’m tracking that our validator has not put in a vote yet.

Rebel Defi 17:18
And are you suggesting this as some sort of investment opportunity for the Galactic DAO? Or are you more like saying we need to vote on it?

taoi 17:27
Yeah, we need to vote on it because it’s one of the responsibilities of running a validator, right.

Rebel Defi 17:32

taoi 17:32
When because we are… Right, sorry, go on.

Rebel Defi 17:37
So that raises a question. Is TASA in charge of the validator, Karma? Who, I mean… There must be one point of contact, is it TASA?

Karma 17:49
So we have one lead… Basically the core team comprises of five people and our lead dev Frank is the sole power and backbone of the validator. And because obviously, none of our core team members are on Punks full time, we do rely on help from many community members to keep on top of everything because obviously Frank is not just taking care of the validator, but also of Punks Staking, on-chain DAO, etcetera. So the way of voting on our validator has worked so far was that in the Discord, we have a separate channel called Terra Governance. This is where Beserker has been posting all proposals, and we’ve been just thumbs up thing and non voting, the proposals to see the sentiment of the community. And very often with community proposals if someone doesn’t understand the exact implications or how these votes could actually influence the Terra ecosystem. We’ve had some pretty great discussions in the DAO Discussions channel. So in a way the DAO was also a stage for discussions and explaining different things to new community members, but I do agree, apparently, we must have just overlooked that particular proposal and we haven’t voted yet. I’m trying to open the Discord to see if we have posted it into the Governance chat.

Rebel Defi 19:20
I didn’t even know about that channel.

taoi 19:23
It is in the Terra Governance channel if I’m not wrong.

Rebel Defi 19:25
Oh, yeah it’s there, it’s there.

taoi 19:26
Yeah. So thanks for bringing that up. I realized I skipped over a couple of these points. I’ll just take two minutes here to clarify how this whole thing works, right. So Galactic DAO runs a validator on the Terra ecosystem, or on the Terra network, right. So what happens is when you as a delegator delegate your LUNA to the DAO validator, you have the right to vote on whatever proposal that comes up for the Terra chain and you can vote whichever way you want to vote, and that’s how your vote gets registered, right. But what happens is, if you do nothing with the delegated LUNA, then the validator is what you default to. So if the Galactic DAO validator says we vote “yes” to partnership with Excalibur, right, then all the people that do not vote or do nothing with their delegated LUNA, their vote kind of goes over to default with whatever we choose as the validator, whichever way our vote leans. If I’m wrong on some of this, Karma, correct me here, or rebel, correct me here. But that’s one of the responsibilities of running a validator is that you are one of the more informed people. So when your average dude doesn’t really know about the day to day proposals that go through the validators or what the what the voting gets defaulted back to.

Rebel Defi 20:54
100%, that’s my understanding as well. And I mean, I’m involved with Orbital Command as well. So I suppose it’s embarrassing as I’ve got… For the Galactic DAO and Orbital Command, but we are actually building a tool at Orbital Command, or one of the team is, nothing directly to do with me, I don’t have the skills. But he’s developing a tool to scrape the data to find out which validators are actually proactive when it comes to governance, and almost build a league table of the strongest, or the validators with the strongest voting records. So it reflects well on a validator that does engage, I mean, validators should be engaged with the Terra LUNA network.

taoi 21:45
Right, it’s one of the core… Or I think it’s a very core thing.

Rebel Defi 21:49
100%. So we’re not… I mean, the Galactic Dao was not a validator just for the money. I mean, obviously, getting some LUNA is nice. And it helps sort of buy some floor Punks for the raffle and give the team a tiny bit of money. In fact, that kind of leads on to one of the proposals I’m considering is almost changing the structure of how the DAO is funded. Because as LUNA goes up in price, and as more Punks are traded, the royalties side of things in dollar terms should increase quite a lot. And maybe some sort of way to… I mean, I don’t know if Karma’s that interested… Well, I mean, I know she’s interested, but I don’t know if she’d be interested in the proposal. But the idea being that more of the money could be directed, not necessarily to the existing team, but probably, to see if we can get some more sort of… Or see if we can get someone working full time. Maybe one, maybe two, maybe more. I think that’s hopefully the long term future of Galactic Punks in my eyes.

Karma 22:56
Yeah, if I could chime in on that. So I personally was also thinking of it would be absolutely lovely to have almost a full time community manager who just make sure that everything in the DAO, everything in the Discord is moving smoothly, because our mods are amazing. But there just really needs that additional incentive and additional amount of time for people to be able to take care of community, make sure that everything is running smoothly, because as much as we are trying to, believe me, the day just does not have enough hours to take care of everything. And I also think a very, very important sort of structure for our DAO going forward is what we’ve been discussing all along with Nebulas, like empowering Nebulas and pushing that vote forward. The ambassadors have just been working on a new proposal for that, where maybe we just follow the very, very established structure of MonkeDAO from Solana and basically elect five members per Nebula who will build a DAO council. So almost like elected representatives on top of Ambassadors, and these people will be able to take care of some more tasks, be rewarded via the Tip Bot, and contribute to the growth in a more active and regular way.

taoi 24:27
Right, and I’m reading this as it’s coming in and I’m kind of holding my thoughts in my own head because I’m still simmering on them and I’m trying to process them myself, right. But one of the things that really comes out of this is that the Nebulas can get more nimble, right. So the little things that need to get done don’t need to go up for a full vote. And one of the things… I don’t know if MonkeDAO does it this way, because I never looked into it. But one of the things I’d like to see… So again, it’s like I’m still simmering on these thoughts, right. But a sort of like a delegation in the way that if the Finance Nebula is like, “Hey, we need to shuffle some aUST over to White Whale to get a little bit better rate. So we’re gonna have some vUST and some aUSTs.” But it’s a very small change altogether, so we should be able to push this vote through but then have it in a two layer voting system. So you have a primary layer of voting system, which is what is used, and you need that 20% quorum, and that’s what gives the authority to the Nebulas. But then Nebulas, when they push votes forward within their own sectors, the vote that they push forward only needs, let’s say a 5%, or a 10% quorum to push forward because they can just… And it can be a shorter timeframe for the voting period as well, because it’s a very specific and a directed thing, and it falls under the umbrella of that Nebula. So that bigger vote that passed with the 20% quorum originally to form the Nebula and give them their agenda, their standard operating procedure, right, if everything falls within that, the new vote should just be like a, “Hey, yes, we checked that you are within your lines of operation, and you’re good to go.”

Rebel Defi 25:45
Karms’s saying 100%. One thing I’ve been thinking about is I used to live in Japan, a good few years ago now. But one thing they used to do not… Particularly not in a DAO but sort of like a DAO, was they had little kind of community groups of all the people living in a certain area and the areas were quite small. But within the area, there would be the sort of leader, not the council, but that kind of structure, there’ll be a leader or sub-leader, and then there’ll be the sort of committee and they would do stuff, like organizing parties and stuff for various festivals and such like. But all the people doing that they would be on sort of time limited terms. It was typically for a year, but I’m thinking time limited, would be quite good for these Nebula positions in my eyes, in the sense that no one’s going to get sort of entrenched, everyone who kind of wants to have a turn doing it will be able to have a turn. But also it will hopefully encourage more people to get active within the DAO, which I think is important. I don’t know what you think on that sort of idea, maybe six months or something would work.

taoi 27:17
Yeah, yeah, I’m about that. I mean, that’s essentially what happens for your US president, right. It’s the same idea, we’re just changing up timescales. But I’m about it, it’s good. The drawback of it is, right… And this is not a drawback we need to worry about anytime soon, just the way these things scale. But the only drawback with time based things is lack of continuity once your organizations get bigger and bigger, right. So this is like… We’re talking geopolitics here, I understand. But when you have this break in continuity, you end up having a new dude that comes in and he has, let’s say, six months, as you just said, right, to push forward the agenda that this new dude was elected in on. But then things change and then he doesn’t get the next six months and only half of that agenda goes through then the new dude that comes in in the following six months has a new agenda.

Rebel Defi 28:47
Potentially, but I mean, in a sense, our agenda should… Well we’re not gonna have Republicans and Democrats.

taoi 28:55
No, you’re right.

Rebel Defi 28:56
Within a DAO, our main aim is increasing the value of the DAO, promoting Galactic Punks, but I see your point. I mean, there would be ways we could sort of finesse that, you could potentially have everyone like… I don’t know. Say it was six months terms and then two people drop out, and then two new people come on. And then after another three months, two of the original people drop out and another two new people come on, so it’s kind of I don’t like a rolling type thing. That may work. And we’d love to discuss…

Karma 29:28
I’m sorry, I am laughing internally at the thought of Galactic Republicans.

taoi 29:36
Hey dude, I’m about it. I’m totally about it. Karma. I think we can make it that big.

Rebel Defi 29:42
It’ll be yuge.

Karma 29:44
Yes, I think however, I agree totally with your point. Many people want to get involved, but don’t quite know how/don’t have the tools to get involved. So looking at the NFT Nebula, which is the Galactic DAO group for working on discussion and preparing sort of like our thesis and shopping list for the DAO to establish an NFT vault for the DAO. So people discuss… The discussions, they’re incredibly interesting, people are passionate about different projects, they construct and post this entire pitches on what we should be buying and holding long term. However, because currently the DAO is constrained by the general vote, where when we want to pass something or we want to buy something, the entire DAO would need to vote on it. It’s impossible for a single person to push this through, and we can’t be voting on everything, because the voter fatigue would then absolutely kill us. People would just stop voting, because they would be at it five times a day. So making sure that the Nebulas themselves and the smaller Nebula councils can vote on smaller proposals on themselves, or at least within the council, ensures that these people can actually push their projects through, they can get involved, and they have the tools to do so. I think long term, this is one of the most important things for the sustainability of the DAO.

taoi 31:16
Right, and actually, this is one of the things that Rebel and I completely agree on. It’s like the the intent here, behind the reason why we host these once a week is so that we give context to everybody that can’t follow those long drawn out conversations in the Discord, for example, with Galactic Dao, right, is to give give people a summarized context of what it is that’s going on and express other people’s views on what it is that’s… The discussion that’s going on in our governance quorums, right. And that’s kind of how we feel we can reach out to more people and get more opinions and more input into our governance process.

Rebel Defi 32:02
That said on this call just now, there’s a lot of familiar faces. [chuckle] So I don’t know how many new people we’re reaching, but thank you all for being here. Do you want to sort of spread out and talk about different protocol? Or can we stick on Punks for a bit longer?

Saina 32:17
I got a couple things lined up, but I’m down for whatever you want. What do you got in mind?

Rebel Defi 32:22
Well, listen, no, no, if you’ve done some preparation, then we can… Take the floor, it’s all yours, Taoi.

taoi 32:30
Okay, well, it’s just I think we would be remiss to not mention Anchor because that has been the talk of the town with their… I think it started with Arca or something, when they proposed that they wanted to have Anchor be connected to depositors. So if you hold so many ANC tokens, you get better yield rates, and then the argument was brought up that it breaks the fungibility of aUST, right, that whole aUST mechanism goes out the window, and then Retrograde and I think someone else came in with ve tokenomics to tackle the borrow side of it, right. So they were saying you basically have ve tokenomics. Ve is vote escrow tokenomics, if you deposit your token for so long, and you get so much voting power.

Rebel Defi 33:21
That’s one thing I learned this week, I finally worked out… Or I didn’t work out, but learned what ve stands for. Sorry.

taoi 33:30
No, it’s okay. So yeah, ve tokenomics on the borrow side, so that the governance could then incentivize certain borrow assets more, and others less depending on what was needed, right. The drawbacks on that side was that it could lead to certain borrow assets being over incentivized, and then you have less diversity in your borrowing assets, which is kind of what V2 is trying to do with their new borrow mechanisms is to diversify the number of assets you can borrow with. And then, there was a combination of the two put forward, and this has been a roller coaster and a half to follow. I’ve had a good time with it, but the new proposal that was put forward was that you kind of combine the two proposals together. So in depositing, you would get 75% of your interest rate as UST, so you’d get 15% or 17% as UST, but then 3% I think is the number that they said, you would get as Anchor tokens rewarded to you for depositing. And then you could boost and reduce your overall rate. So the two combined, your aUST and your Anchor rates would combine to 20%, but only if you agreed to deposit your Anchor tokens for one year after you receive them as rewards, so you wouldn’t have access to your Anchor reward right away, but you would have rewards that are your UST rewards and right away as normal. So that got a little complicated and then… But it led to really cool discussions. And now the newest addition is a simple 50 split. So anybody that deposits 10,000 UST gets the full 20%. And then any token after that gets a reduced rate all the way down to 10% UST only. And I’m not sure why this is going to be the most optimal way. But I’m looking forward to what happens in the governance and see the other push back and push forward with it as well.

Rebel Defi 35:56
So you’re saying your first 10,000 you’ll get the full sort of Anchor rate, whatever it is. Would it then matter how many Anchor tokens you’re holding?

taoi 36:06
No, that part has gone out the window now. Yeah.

Rebel Defi 36:09
Right. But I mean that’s so amazing. Your first 10,000 is the full rate, and anything after that is reduced. I mean, that just incentivizes… I don’t wanna say manuals, but smaller wallets. And that is exactly what we should be reaching out. I mean, someone with a million in Anchor Earn doesn’t really need 20%. They’ve already done pretty well themselves.

taoi 36:37
Exactly. And it does lead to some issues. All of these proposals in one way or another break aUST as we know it, right. Because then you can’t have a token that represents both 20% and 10% at the same time, that doesn’t work. So in almost all of these cases, aUST has to be completely reworked. But the other thing that the obvious drawback of this new thing is that people can just make new wallets and have a wallet of 10k, and then a second wallet of 10k, which gets complicated and you can only do it so many times before it’s just a nightmare to manage. So there’s that. But I think that it’s okay. Because if we go back to what Anchor is trying to be is it’s trying to be a savings protocol, right. In making aUST, so making your deposit fungible, we kind of made it more than a savings protocol, we made it a leverage protocol as well. But if it’s okay, I think that Anchor goes back to its grassroots and be a saving protocol, right, where you deposit and that’s it. You don’t need your token to be fungible, or your deposit to be fungible, right. Because what was the intent? The intent is that, “Oh, you have a bunch of dollars, and you just want to earn some interest more than the 0.5%, right, from your normal bank, and this is a place you come for. That’s how I’ve always viewed Anchor, is that protocol. So I never really went too far into taking then my aUST and then selling it and buying something else and then looping it back or something like that. I just never got into it, because… And I think that role can be filled with things like Mars Protocol very easily, because that’s what their intent is. So I don’t know. I’m just… My kind of opinion in regard to this is that I don’t think it would be that big of a deal if we go one step back and lose aUST and then you just deposit your UST and that’s it, you can’t really do much with it. But it will result in a lot of deposits being withdrawn out of the protocol and it’s a big thing for sure.

Rebel Defi 39:02
But then that’s not necessarily a bad thing? I don’t know. I mean, that means the yield reserves gonna last a whole lot longer if people are slowly taking out now. Yeah, 20% is not enough for me, I need more. I mean, come on. I mean, to be honest, I mean, even though… I mean I’ve got my Anchor space to own, I love me some Anchor. But I’ve been selling into strength. So I literally have no Anchor tokens left which I do sort of… In one one hand I feel bad about, but on the other I’m like, “Wow, I’ve done all right.”

taoi 39:51
Right, right. So yeah, and that aside, right… So the way it should be is, right, Anchor needs to kind of come together because these discussions are rather heated and they’re… And it’s good that they’re being held mostly in the governance forums, and not so much over Twitter and stuff, because that’s kind of the place where you need to have these long form discussions and this asymmetric back and forth, right.

Rebel Defi 40:26
But I mean, I’ve read one of the proposals I didn’t realize there was… And that was at the start of this week. So if there’s been a new proposal started since the start of this week, I’m completely in the dark about that, other than what you’ve just told me. But yeah, I think it is important that users of the platform and certainly token holders go on to the forums to find out what’s going on.

taoi 40:52
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I was just happy to see activity and governance or whatever. That’s all I care about these days. It’s good. It’s really good.

Rebel Defi 41:04
100%. I’ll be honest with you, I’m just scrolling through who’s on the call just now. And I’m quite happy to see these Rekt Wolves. They look dope. I didn’t go for one of them.

taoi 41:14
The Rekt Wolves?

Rebel Defi 41:16
Yeah, man, there’s a few… I mean, I love seeing the Punks in the call, obviously. But I do like these Rekt Wolves.

Saina 41:22
They look cute. They look cute. Karma’s owning them. I know Karma owns one for sure.

Rebel Defi 41:29
Maybe she’s just admiring that by herself just now. Did you want to jump… I mean, does anyone want to say anything? You’re more than welcome to come on up and tell us what you think about anything going on on the Punks or this Anchor thing. We’ve got… Bill’s got an Anchor Space on… Oh, we’ve got one request. Here we go. Defi Zealot with his Rekt Wolf. Defi you’re up.

Defi Zealot 41:51
Hey, I just heard you were talking about the Rekt Wolves. And I just wanted to say that I didn’t even know I was on the whitelist because I didn’t make it through the Galactic Punks whitelist to get the Rekt Wolf. I’m just amazed at somehow I got on the whitelist, I’m not sure how, because on the morning when they were doing the minting, I’d noticed that there was a transaction on my wallet that added me to the whitelist. So I went in and minted some. And I’m just amazed that how in the public section, it took less than a minute, like 20 seconds to sell out the rest of the 300 or so that they had. I’m really glad that these guys, Rekt Wolf guys, they’re doing such a great job for the community in terms of getting everyone together to rate NFTs and help out. It’s kind of like how you were talking about, Taoi, how there’s so much news and information going around that it’s hard to keep up with everything if you’re into DeFi and NFTs at the same time. So these guys are doing a great job of summarizing like, “Hey, here’s the most important info for this upcoming mint.” And you can just decide whether you’re going to mint or not.

taoi 43:21
Yeah. I mean, now you’re getting me excited. I like that a lot.

Defi Zealot 43:25
Yeah, I think Rekt Wolves, they have got something interesting going on. They’re talking about also doing this across different chains as well. So I’m really excited to see if they start including the Stargaze stuff, which is the L1 on Cosmos that that is focused only on NFTs basically. They’re building out all the tooling and stuff for it being the main L1 chain in the Cosmos universe for being the NFT minting platform, I guess.

Rebel Defi 44:05
Cool. It’s amazing that we can think we’re kind of a little bit educated in this sort of crypto thing. But yeah, there’s so much that… The more you find out, it’s just the more you find out you don’t actually know. It’s crazy. Crazy, but yeah, no, the Rekt Wolves look great. And seems like quite an exciting project and maybe I was sleeping on that one.

taoi 44:29
Dude, I moved them up on my list.

Rebel Defi 44:31
Yeah, we’ve go Saina? Is that how you pronounce it? Saina? Another Rekt Wolf in the house. Do you want to jump up?

Saina 44:40
Yeah, I just wanna say that Rekt Wolf was a really inspiring project to me. And then they said that they will improve of upon the MonkeDAO governance way, this creates task force teams to tackle different aspects of the DAO endeavors moving on to maximize the efficiencies so that some decisions don’t have to require every holders to vote.

taoi 45:11
Right. Yeah, this is a thing that’s very much of interest to me. Because we do need to go and decentralize, exactly as Karma said actually, that we do need to decentralize governance. Because if everybody comes together and votes on a 20% quorum for a proposal over everything, it leads to a voter fatigue, it really does. And there needs to be a way to, I guess “silo” is the wrong word, but you do need to get focus group and get people specialized into certain aspects. But you also have to be very cognizant of the drawback is this is where I mean to use the word “silo” is you get siloing of mindsets. And people need to be still aware of the bigger DAO, even though they’re working heads down in their specific, in our case, the Nebula.

Saina 45:13
Yeah, so I’m also interested in what to tackle with Skeleton Punks on the high table. They said there’ll be 12 sub communities with different traits, and then they will each have a seat on their high table. So I wonder how that would go.

taoi 46:34
Oh, neat. That’s a neat idea. So the way… Hold on, let me say it back to you so we’re both on the same page. So if your trait number one is x, and then someone else has a trait number x as their trait one, then you both are part of a sub community within that NFT community, right. That’s how you’re saying it?

Saina 46:59
Yeah, yeah. So right now two sub communities are confirmed. Some of the SPunks have this Luart background. So the holders of those are one sub community. So I think they will organize themselves and choose an ambassador to sit on the high table of Skeleton Punks.

taoi 47:26
Okay, okay. It’s the same concept eh, Rebel, that we were trying to get done with Gridz kind of, right. The first word is your colony and then that’s the group of people that you have a common thing with. And then the second word is your little sector within that colony. And then the third word represents you. And then you can have a different grid for each one of your colonies that you want to be a part of as long as that’s the first word of your grid.

Rebel Defi 48:00
That’s sort of what… Yeah, what Saina was saying, it reminded me of that. I don’t know if that’s exactly what it is. But yeah, that’s kind of what came to mind for me.

taoi 48:08
Yeah, that’s the first thing that came to my mind too.

Defi Zealot 48:12
Yeah, there is already a lot of those kind of subgroups forming, for example, in the Bulls community, the Luna Bulls community, there’s Iced Out Bulls and then also the Caesar Bulls. I accidentally came across the Caesar Bulls because I have one of those and I joined them and found out that we have our own Discord and also whitelists that you get for different projects separately, than the actual bigger Luna Bulls community, right. So it’s been really interesting to see how they kind of form organically and then there’s a bunch of people that kind of go and talk to the main community and get assigned that way I think in the Skeleton Punks, there is Chainsmokers community in there. I can see someone… Derek over here with a cigarette on and so, yes, solidarity to you, because I’ve minted one of those with the smoking cigar as well.

Rebel Defi 49:26
The Chainsmokers. Cool.

Karma 49:28
Yeah. I wonder sometimes about these sub communities. It’s such an interesting kind of… Almost like phenomenon, where… Yeah, I have to admit like I didn’t really see it coming, all these sub communities forming, and I often wonder if they add or detract from the general collection. And I think my main question would be why do you guys think this form in the first place? Is it just because we are so early that collections still seem bigger than what people want to be a part of? Do people just crave smaller groups so they separate the bigger collection by traits? I don’t know, I haven’t really made up my mind on this yet, but I think it’s a very interesting topic.

Saina 50:19
I can actually tell you how those kind of get started, like rough history. So I also buy a lot of Ethereum NFTs and Solana NFTs and then this sub community thing is very Terra thing. I don’t see it in Ethereum or other places. It’s very Terra thing. So I heard that the guys who minted Iced Out Luna Bulls are those with chains and the naked Luna Bulls, they merely joke among themselves, it’s like, the Nipple Gang, or something else. And then they decided to get together and show their Luna Bulls together. So it really took off and right now Iced Out Luna Bull floor is actually 200 LUNAs. And even though it’s not that high in the official rarity, it’s the most prized Luna Bulls in my opinion. So they were so quite successful. After that other people wanted to do something like Iced Out Luna Bulls, there’s Fraternity Hellcats, and then there’s Afterlife Collectives, the NFTs with zombies or dead traits. So it all started with Iced Out.

Rebel Defi 51:45
And did those the Nipple Gang or whatever they started off calling themselves, that would never have taken off, that’s rubbish. Did they come up with the name Iced Out? Because now Iced Out has kind of just entered the vernacular of LUNAtics. But was that… They sort of invent that name?

Saina 52:03
It was the trait name.

Rebel Defi 52:05
Ah, okay.

Saina 52:06
So the Luna Bulls named it Iced Out. It’s a kinda reminded me of 13th century Mongolian army structure. So they were one of the most effective armies in human history. And then… So soldiers would create a faction of 10 soldiers, they were called tens. And then every 10 soldiers will have a leader. And then there will be a leader for 100 soldiers, and the leader will communicate with the leaders of 10 soldiers groups. And then the biggest guy will be called the leader of 10,000s. So, Gengis Khan at the time had roughly 100,000 soldiers, so he will talk with his leaders of 10,000 soldiers, and then chain of command would go down like that. So it kinda reminded me of that system, we have project founder, and then we have sub community leaders and who knows, we could have sub sub community leaders.

Defi Zealot 53:17
The interesting pattern here I’m seeing also is that there is a inter NFT project Iced Out community as well, where they’re like trying to combine all the Iced traits from the different communities and it’s really interesting to see how that’s evolving. And I do… Even though it’s kind of come into play organically, I’m seeing that it is true that the groups that are able to shill their project more or make more of a hype of it, the floor prices are actually going up by quite a bit. I’ve been part of the Cesar Bulls community and when I first noticed it the floor was only at 20 or something like that LUNA and now it’s well above 64

Rebel Defi 54:16
What are the Caesar Bulls? I’m rubbish with the Luna Bulls.

Defi Zealot 54:24
Caesar bulls are the ones that are wearing a Caesar outfit? So I think we see somebody in the listeners here who… Who has a Cesar Bull.

Rebel Defi 54:35
Oh, I like it. Yeah, that’s decent. And he’s got one of the Tesseract ones. That’s cool. I like it. Yeah. Caesar Bull with funky sunglasses. [chuckle] Maybe not quite… But pretty cool.

taoi 54:50
So yeah, sort of the way it is, right. And it totally makes sense to me and I totally understand it and to the original question Karma brought up, right. I think it’s a value add to the greater community one way or the other. So the way I explain… Whenever I’m talking to my non crypto friends, right, they’re asking me about NFTs, right. So usually I just use the example of a gym membership, right. So you have 10,000 gym memberships. And let’s say that’s the only gym memberships you’ll have to that particular gym that you go to, right, that’s down the road from you. So that’s all cool. And then it gets sold out. And then there’s 10,000 people that go to your gym. And that’s your clique of all your muscle heads. But now new people want to join in because they’re like, “Wow, this is a cool little place,” somebody has to sell it. So now you have to put your membership up for sale so that somebody else can enter your group. Which is fine, right, that’s just the nature of your setup. But then each individual membership holds rights. So let’s say you want to do more upper body, right, so the bench press gets priority because you hold membership number 500 something right, all the 500 ones gets you priority over the bench presses. But then… Right, this is how I use my… This is how it is but it’s completely exactly the correlation, right. So then Arnold… Or what’s your name, Vin Diesel, comes to your gym, and he goes like, “Oh, dude, that squat rack is the tits for sure.” And he puts his signature on there. And then all the memberships that are numbered 600 whatever are gonna go through the roof, because everybody’s like, “Yo, I want to squat at the squat rack that Vin Diesel signed with his own pencil,” right. So that’s how I see it. And it’s the same idea, you’re just talking in a virtual NFT.

taoi 56:48
Yeah, well, I mean, that’s… I mean, yeah, a membership. Right, certainly. I mean, that’s one thing a lot of people are thinking about on Discord and stuff at the moment for NFTs. One thing… I just noticed the Galactic DAO sorry to change the subject, but we’re kind of running towards the end of our alloted slot. We have Luna Fomo up, but he seems to be dropping out. But I think he was gonna say something. But there was in the Finance Nebula, while we’ve been on the call, a brilliant question, and it reminds me a lot of our Mars Lockdrop strategy. TerraFormerUST said with Prism Farm event opening on Monday, do we have a strategy planned yet? No. But how have we got to Saturday before Prism Farming opens, and not have a strategy for Prism? [chuckle] What are we doing?

taoi 57:49
It’s because I think it’s just a lot of people are just waiting for us to get organized with the new governance structure so the Finance nebula can start pushing forward proposals in the new chain of proposals, if that makes sense.

Rebel Defi 58:10
Because we do have a big bag of xPRISM. I mean, that should already be… I mean, it’s not, but it should be staked into AMPS.

taoi 58:19
I’m pretty sure it is.

Rebel Defi 58:21
Oh okay, okay. I’ll need to follow up on that.

taoi 58:24
It’s staked for sure. It’s staked for sure. But I don’t know if it’s collecting yet, but it is stake for sure.

Rebel Defi 58:31
I mean, if it was staked and collecting AMPS, and then we… I mean, we’ve got thousands of LUNA, just sitting in the wallet, don’t we? I mean, we should be refracting LUNA, chucking it into the Prism Farming event starting on Monday to eard a ridiculous amount of PRISM tokens, which we can then stake for xPRISM and collect fourty odd percent.

taoi 58:55
Right. But this is the same thing, right. The way we have it structured right now is like if let’s say you go through the process of making that proposal to refract, get some yLUNA and then put it into the deposit and get some, what is it, PRISM tokens in return for it. So that proposal has to go through the whole of DAO, right, and then it has to be written in that way. But I think what’s happening is people are just focused on the decentralization of our governance right now. And we’re like, “Okay, we’re gonna miss some opportunities, but it’s more important that we set up.” But this is my opinion, and this is my takeaway from the way I’ve been seeing things happening is we’re just focused on decentralizing our governance, so that Finance Nebula has more autonomy and becomes a little more nimble, so that we can be like, “Oh, hey, here’s the new hot thing. Let’s put a quick vote together. Are we good to go? This is within our…” What is it called, “The Finance Nebula constitution,” something like that.

Rebel Defi 1:00:02
Yeah, I’ll be honest with you. I don’t know if we are seeing eye to eye on that, if I’m hearing you correctly, in the sense of on a personal level I do not think Finance Nebula should have… Unless it’s been voted on by the DAO. I mean, Finance Nebula’s kind of my area, but I don’t think it’s right that I should be part of a small group that can say, “Right. Let’s take 2,000 LUNA out of the DAO and chuck into Prism.” I mean, I think

taoi 1:00:33
It wouldn’t be like that.

Rebel Defi 1:00:34
But like I don’t think… Right.

taoi 1:00:37
I don’t think it’ll end up being that way exactly. We’ll see. Because it’s still a discussion, right. It’s in the form of a discussion, we’re still changing things up, right. And I have to read the new iteration of it. I haven’t read that yet.

Rebel Defi 1:00:52
Well I’ve not read that. But I mean, this is a discussion that was started over a month ago.

taoi 1:00:58
Right, I think we need some sort of a checks and balances, right. So you still will need the greater DAO to come in and vote “yes” on whatever thing you’re doing. It’s more that how much of the greater DAO you need to come in and say, “Alright, you’re good to go,” right. That’s what reduces… That’s the best course of action we have in reducing voter fatigue, but still keeping it decentralized, right. So I think…

Rebel Defi 1:01:33
So if we get 500 Punks saying, “Yeah, that’s a good idea,” we do it. Is that what you’re saying?

taoi 1:01:39
Yeah, I think it’s just a matter of reducing quorum. So you can have the Finance Nebula push up proposals being like, “Hey, we’ve discussed this internally. We are the subject matter experts on yield farming,” right, let’s say, “And we’ve discussed this internally, and therefore, this is how we want to go forward. Here’s our proposal.” And because it’s not coming from a person who is just equal to everybody else in the DAO, we now have some sort of a hierarchy, right. So it’s coming from a group of people that are the subject matter experts, and they have been elected to be the subject matter experts, right. So those people are saying, “Hey, we’re voting… We need a vote passed on this proposal this way.” And that vote now has been vetted a whole lot more than a vote that you and I put up individually, right. So it should be held to a lesser quorum than the 20% quorum that we have for everything else. Does that make sense?

Rebel Defi 1:02:43
I believe so. I might need to listen to Finn’s recording again on TerraSpaces. Right we’ve done an hour, we could certainly go much longer. I’ve been great chatting with everyone who came up to speak. Sorry public apology to Luna Fomo who was up and we just stuck with the Rekt Wolves, they are looking dope. Might have to go and check them out on secondary market Yeah, so you want to do this again guys? We can do it next Saturday. It was quite cool having Karma to give us some official chat from the Galactic Punk team. Defi Zealot’s saying yes. Cool. Final words, Taoi?

taoi 1:03:24
I’m down for inviting other projects too, right, and get their opinion when we talk about other governances as well, right.

Rebel Defi 1:03:33
Are we talking just NFT projects or are you talking anyone, guests, from across the Terraverse? Or have you gone multi-chain on me, Taoi?

taoi 1:03:41
I am… Dude, the world is our oyster.

Rebel Defi 1:03:44
Cool. Cool. Shout out to everyone who joined us this evening. Thanks. A big shout out to Finn for recording on TerraSpaces. We’ll cut it short now and hopefully see you again next week.

Finn 1:03:54
Thanks for checking out another episode of The Ether. That was the Governance Gang hosted by Taoi and Rebel Defi. Recorded on Saturday, March 5th 2022. This episode The Ether was brought to you by Talis. Talis Protocol is the NFT platform for independent artists on Terra. Talis helps to provide artists with the tools and resources needed to transition from traditional arts into the NFT world. With their V1 launch coming soon, Talis will be the place to see real world art reflected on Terra. Be sure to join their Telegram and follow Talis on Twitter for updates on their roadmap, validator, and other Tallis news. Find your next favorite artist on This episode of The Ether was also brought to you by Orbital Command, a community validator on Terra dedicated to educating, expanding, and promoting the LUNAtic community. Have you heard about the new Terra Invest Strategy Discord server Orbital Command spun up? If you’re looking for a chill place to chat about different LUNA stalking strategies, or looking for some alpha, or if you’re trying to find the best UST farms, or even if you just have a quick question you need a answered, be sure to stop by TIS and say hi to the Orbital Command gang. Hell, I’m even in there sometimes when I’m not editing hours of Cephii spaces. You can find me in that server chatting about NFTs and answering basic Terra LUNA questions. The link to the server is in the show notes and for more information check out TerraSpaces appreciates the support from all our sponsors. For, I’m Finn. Thanks for listening.